ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:57 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:37 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 2017
Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
I don’t hob knob with the elite much, but I’ve never heard about private duck clubs requiring a 20 gage or less to shoot. I guess it’s a thing now. Of course denser than lead shot makes it easy if you’ve got the money to feed it. Don’t know if I buy into the whole ducks are less harnessed or bothered thing though.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/guns/ ... -28-gauge/


Banning 12 Gauges?
When Holly Heyser started hunting 14 years ago, she bought a 20-gauge Beretta 391 because that’s what the hunters she knew told her to buy.

“And I liked it, but when I ended up getting a 12-gauge a few years later, I ended up killing a lot more ducks,” says Heyser, acknowledging that she also started practicing more when she got the larger gauge. “So for a while, I really kind of resented the whole 20-gauge thing because I’ve been told I needed it because I’m a girl. And I’m 5-foot-8. I’m not delicate.”

As the communications director of California Waterfowl, Heyser gets plenty of invites to hunt private duck clubs across the state. Before attending one such hunt, she learned that members and their guests weren’t permitted to shoot a 12-gauge. According to Heyser, this gauge restriction isn’t the norm among California’s hundreds of duck clubs, but it is becoming more popular.

“When I first heard about this trend, I thought it was kind of snobby. Like, we’re going to use our small-bore guns,” she says, impersonating the kind of pretentious, older hunter who almost certainly wears tweed. “It just reeked of elitism to me.”

She arrived to hunt, comfortable with her 20-gauge but curious why it was required. Club members told her the “No 12-gauge” rule was designed to reduce bird disturbance.

“I thought that was the silliest damn thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Because it’s a gun, and it’s not like birds go, Oh, just a 20-gauge. I’m going to keep flying through.”

She remained skeptical until a hunt with Paul Bonderson of Bird Haven Ranch, who had just implemented his own ban on anything larger than a 20-gauge. Because she was introducing a group of wildlife biology undergrads to hunting (“so they get to know their constituents”), Heyser wasn’t shooting much that morning. And when she wasn’t shooting, she noticed surviving ducks were recovering from volleys more quickly than she was used to.

“When you fire your gun, it’s like this whole explosion that clears out everything. It makes everything shut up, it makes everything fly away. And when it’s a 20-gauge, everything just goes back to normal a little bit faster. That’s when I realized it wasn’t B.S., and it wasn’t something snotty. It was a legitimate claim.”




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:02 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:15 am
Posts: 10785
Commie rag.

_________________
As a system of governance, democracy theorizes that the difference between right and wrong is a popularity contest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:21 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8523
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Pretty soon will require silencers on 410s!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:35 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:15 am
Posts: 10785
Dr Duk wrote:
Pretty soon will require silencers on 410s!


...along with bio-degradable fiber shot.

Communists fear the procurement of food without going through proper government channels of distribution and taxation. It's not about conservation. It's about making you bow to their giant green god.

_________________
As a system of governance, democracy theorizes that the difference between right and wrong is a popularity contest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:27 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:14 pm
Posts: 2396
Location: 35 miles from Normal, Illinois (as close to normal as I'll ever be)
I am sure the folks proposing this idea enjoy a good rush self affirmation. But, I am skeptical about any meaningful difference.

From the E.A.R. Inc. hearing protection website:
Dr. Krammer, Ph.D., Ball State University, Muncie, Indiana has documented the following pressure levels.
20 ga. shotgun - 28" barrel - 152.5dB
12 ga. shotgun - 28" barrel - 151.5dB

No, I have no info on the details of his testing.

_________________
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Justice Louis D. Brandeis (1856-1941)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:15 am
Posts: 10785
Humans generally hear sound over 20 decibels, and 140 decibels is about where damage may occur. If I recall what I heard, although I heard it in high school, every three decibels doubles how loud the sound is perceived by Man. If that's correct, then a 12 is roughly 1-1/3 times as loud as a 20ga..

Story time.

When I was new to duck hunting I was hunting a pair of Wisconsin kettles, one right off the road and an adjacent kettle behind the first with a bog between them. I would pull up to the pond to unload the canoe and as soon as I shut the car door about a dozen wood ducks would get off the pond by the road and go to the back pond where I would hunt. But, as soon as I paddled to the back pond the woodies would get up again and go back by the road. This went on for a couple seasons.

Then one day I was in my blind at the back pond when I saw a car pull up on the side of the road above the front pond where my car was parked. I was thinking, "Okay! Woodies coming by in 10,9,8,7,6,5.... "

But nothing.... For like ten minutes.

Then I heard the soft sound of a car door closing about a 1/4 mile away. That did the trick, took my limit.

I think that if a duck can learn to spook at car door closing then they will sure as heck learn to spook at a shot, no matter what gauge.

_________________
As a system of governance, democracy theorizes that the difference between right and wrong is a popularity contest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:37 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 276
This theory and rule is laughable. I agree with her initial assessment, this is snobbery and elitism backed by baseless claims and junk science. I have hunted ducks with a 20ga and I find very little difference in survivability and kill ratios when compared to a 12ga. It's all dependent on species and range, but I still prefer the 12ga for waterfowl.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:46 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:20 pm
Posts: 9
If the ducks don't start migrating sooner and further down the flyways
IT WILL NOT MATTER....unreal how poor the duck hunting has been this
year in the lower portion of the MS Flyway. To be frank, it is almost beyond
belief. I will say that good hearing protection is an essential part of my
arsenal. I use the custom ear devices from Sound Gear (Starkey).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:29 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:50 pm
Posts: 160
This is absolutely true, if you sit in a blind or adjacent to somebody shooting a 12Ga with High velocity steel and they are insanely loud, from a distance a 20Ga is noticeably quieter than most 12ga steel loads. I hunt public land and when somebody lets go with 3.5" shells you won't see a bird in the area for some time, yet I can shoot my 28Ga with mild Hevishot handloads and have birds light in my decoys within seconds after shooting. I have had birds land in the tules 50 yards away not even get up when shooting that combo. If I touched off a 3" Steel load they are getting the heck out of dodge!

I'm sure one of the reasons they and heading that way is to reduce sky busting without calling out club members!

Kurt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:17 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 756
Reading that , you fellas can see , what we have to contend with here in this Crummy State ?
Not only do we have a idiot Governor , who thinks he's a king but our Waterfowl conservation
organizations employ / waste money on topics like this ! Here in the Pacific Flyway we are at
less than 50 % of the birds we normally have , do to poor management of the resources we have .
With our largest Wintering grounds ( Klamath and Tule Lake ) with very little water to support
breeding and returning migratory birds . You would think hunters would rather read something
more important , like , what is being done to improve this lack of management ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:16 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:50 pm
Posts: 160
Ravenanme wrote:
Reading that , you fellas can see , what we have to contend with here in this Crummy State ?
Not only do we have a idiot Governor , who thinks he's a king but our Waterfowl conservation
organizations employ / waste money on topics like this ! Here in the Pacific Flyway we are at
less than 50 % of the birds we normally have , do to poor management of the resources we have .
With our largest Wintering grounds ( Klamath and Tule Lake ) with very little water to support
breeding and returning migratory birds . You would think hunters would rather read something
more important , like , what is being done to improve this lack of management ?


I know California sucks I lived there once, rally all the support you can for California Waterfowl they are working their butts off trying to get water for Klamath & Tule Lake, hell I'm in Alaska and I buy their gear to support them, they are a good organization that is facing challenges soon heading to other states, CWA is taking it on the chin right now for all of us. FWIW there are 28GA only clubs out there to and not just in CA.

Kurt


Last edited by Hay Flats on Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:48 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 756
With rules to control noise pollution at a duck Club so , birds will be less afraid , is more of a joke
Right ? When the larger percentage of shooters taking 4 to 5 shells per bird , with a 12 ga payload
How many more crippled birds with a lesser payload litter the marsh with ? There are far to many
Einsteins making up laws/rules now , and feeding these journalist with crap like this would be
counter productive for the mainstream of hunters . They should be writing about , how to hide
better , improve your shooting with knowing the ballistics of your gun and loads , and most of
all , only kill what you can consume in a week !
With the troubling days ahead with this new administration , there's really no need to fuel the fire

Just my opinion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:25 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1129
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Ravenme,

I agree with you for the most part and depending on what shells you are using in your 20 gauge gun, especially if they are 3" shells, the sound from the fired gun, can be just about the same depending on the gun. I do know this however, hunting Wood Ducks along Pine Creek in the big forest, the sound is pretty much absorbed by the forest, it made no difference which guns we were downing the Woodies with, the remaining Ducks would eventually return to their home area in about the same amount of time. Now in an open area around a lake, the sound might have some effect, however in the forest along Pine Creek we have seen no difference, no matter the gauge of the gun being used.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:51 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 756
It really is time , before we lose our entire Pacific Flyway , that the focus needs to be on
our historical Wintering Grounds up in Lower Klamath and Tule Lake ! The impact of what
the disease's have done , have emptied our bird populations to a critical point ! We don't
need to hear/read about noise pollution from 12 ga guns , hunters are going to use what
they have and it's really no ones business , other than occupying's a magazine with stuff
other than , what's really important to hunters when asking for donations


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:20 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1547
Funny in my area one of the biggest damaging factors to our duck hunting has been DU. They assist wealthy landowners in putting flooded berms on their land and the rest of us get to listen to them shoot while we stare at empty skies.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:04 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 736
Location: sw Ill
Agree, I’ve dropped my DU membership and support. IMHO they have concentrated the birds in refuges and certain areas while most of the state has very few ducks.

_________________
If in doubt, eMpTy the MAGazine!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:56 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 756
And , with so much that's been done with project monies above our US border , we need to
apply these same efforts with our farmers down here ! I can't speak for other areas but here in
the west there "was" plenty of opportunity to keep and maintain our riparian corridor , the
bird highway from north to south , this migration route is so screwed up now , because , of
the change from grain crops to Nut trees , the birds don't want to be here or they just fly
over their ancestral stopping places . What a shame in recent years the lack of management
has done to the pacific flyway ! The misuse of our natural resources ( Aquifers ) has taken
away Mother Natures way of protecting the environment for all creatures .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:59 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5648
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
What peeves me is that they want to regulate the gauge & not the load. I get the sky busting argument but can't justify why my vintage SXS shooting 1.25 oz. of bismuth is more objectionable than a 3.5" 12 ga. blasting away with steel. (10 ga. is banned on state duck hunts here) They say the 10 ga. is too noisy. Really, & a 3.5" 12 ga. isn't? The maximum published load for the standard 10 is something like 1 5/8 oz., the long 12 can be loaded to 2 oz. It would make a lot more sense to regulate the load.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:33 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9571
Location: Louisiana
Ravenanme wrote:
And , with so much that's been done with project monies above our US border , we need to
apply these same efforts with our farmers down here ! I can't speak for other areas but here in
the west there "was" plenty of opportunity to keep and maintain our riparian corridor , the
bird highway from north to south , this migration route is so screwed up now , because , of
the change from grain crops to Nut trees , the birds don't want to be here or they just fly
over their ancestral stopping places . What a shame in recent years the lack of management
has done to the pacific flyway ! The misuse of our natural resources ( Aquifers ) has taken
away Mother Natures way of protecting the environment for all creatures .


Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, because ducks don't winter in Louisiana in anywhere near the numbers that they used to. I can't say exactly why for sure and doubt that anyone knows with 100% certainty. However, IMO, it's caused by a number of factors including short stopping due to artificially flooded crop lands from here to Canada, DU projects, moderate weather, heavy hunting pressure, lower bird numbers, altered migration patterns, etc., etc. Whatever the reason(s), it'll never be the same down here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 20 gage only private duck clubs?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:16 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1547
MTmag wrote:
Agree, I’ve dropped my DU membership and support. IMHO they have concentrated the birds in refuges and certain areas while most of the state has very few ducks.


Me too. I won't go to DU clay shoots any more. No more auctions and gave up my DU truck tags. Those mf'rs won't ever see another dime from me.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: AlexxRiot, Bing [Bot], DanGH, GLangley, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Life of Riley, Majestic-12 [Bot], skar, strut64, WAGinVA, Waldyo


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice