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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:25 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:19 pm
Posts: 255
Location: Clemmons NC
Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Gentlemen,

If you want to call this old back woodman a snob for using my SXS Hammer Guns and SXS Hammerless guns to Grouse hunt so be it. I am a traditional Grouse hunter have taught many many people to Grouse and woodcock hunt, trained their dogs also. Tradition and ethics are important parts of Grouse & Woodcock hunting. Using a SXS double gun is part of that tradition. We do a lot of teasing about people hunting Grouse with Semi-Auto Duck guns, and O/U Clays guns. It's just how we were raised and taught. My younger brother is a sinner who went over to the dark side, and uses O/U guns for his Grouse hunting. I keep telling him he will stand in front of God for such transgressions. It never even phases him, as it does not phase people here who hunt with O/U and Semi-Auto guns.

In really I am a member of the NRA and want every man to own and use the guns he most likes, and own and run the dog or dogs he most likes also. Myself I am steeped in Grouse hunting tradition, and no it has nothing what so ever to do with impressing some other hunter. In fact I see very few of them in the Grouse Woods while hunting. It has to due with the SXS double gun, with Double Triggers and instant choke selection, while shooting different shells in each barrel of the SXS double gun. I was taught this technique when I was a young boy, and I still use it even today and teach others of its importance, in the Grouse woods.

Now I have let some of our traditional Grouse hunting slip a might, my Grandfather Grouse hunted in more formal attire, suit coat and tie all the time. I wear a traditional Grouse hunting vest with the legal Orange on it, usually a ball cap and some hunting pants or chaps. My Gore-Tex Browning Grouse Coat & Pants are some my favorite hunting attire, light and water proof is my favorite hunting garb.

I was taught that Grouse & Woodcock hunting is a gentlemens sport, that should be done with a Gentlemen's dog and gun. It's not how many birds you take, it's how you take the birds.

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man



Sir, the type of gun or dog with which a man hunts has absolutely nothing to do with being a gentleman. And as far as all the other above clap-trap about not trying to impress anyone else...well that's exactly what it was.
I have hunted upland birds for many years, and have met quite a few true gentlemen, and not one of them felt, as you seem to, that it was important to extoll their own virtues, whether real or pre-conceived.




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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:14 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:29 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Missouri, United States
It may not be the newest or the prettiest shotgun I have at my disposal, but my Browning Auto 5 Light Twelve is my absolute favorite gun to hunt with. It has lots of sentimental value as it belonged to my paternal great-grandfather who was an avid duck hunter all his life. The A-5 also has mechanical features, namely the speed feed, that I really appreciate in the field. I mainly use it to dove hunt each fall, but lately I’ve heavily considered buying some bismuth or a similar non-toxic load that is safe for older guns and taking the A-5 back where she belongs, the duck marsh.


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:59 pm
Posts: 1843
Location: Minnesota
Hi,

A gun that has sentimental value like your A5 is the best gun to hunt with! Continue to rock that gun!

Even PineCreek Dave has sentimental attachments to his guns that make them very special. And I hope he never puts them up to languish.

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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:52 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Gentlemen,

A gentlemen's shooting dog is the name on the book written about the Ryman Setters, bred here in Pa, by George Ryman who developed his own Grouse dog line.
It's the accepted Grouse dog here in Pa, if you happen not two hunt as we do, that does not exclude you from being a gentlemen.

If you have taken offense to the terminology you are not alone. Never tried to impress anyone, no need to.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Pine Creek Ryman Daisy & me on a Grouse hunt here in Pa.
Image

Jonny thanks Daisy for her Grouse.
Image

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L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:23 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
Ryman setters died out decades and decades ago and what was left of them cratered in southern WV.
The re-uppings of and linkages to the brand since for marketing purposes delivered options to panting customers....some with imagined closer links than others.

A ruffed "grouse" dog(as with the ruffed grouse shotgun) is of many stripes...none hold first sway as each can find great success and each can appeal to an individual's own sense of need and esthetic.
Breeds and lines of birddogs in real-world PA itself, finds many avenues of acceptance re Bonasa U.
A birddog brings another level of work, fulfillment and sheer beauty to the bird woods and fields....no need to foul such areas with personal puffery of a preference , imagination or with stabs at "look at me."

I will say that the english dual-type setters, often considered ryman-types rightly or wrongly, can be geared to providing a field and home experience fit for any gentleman...real or one living in an artfully-constructed and creatively-viewed gentlemanly world of their own.
Heck, they can even appeal to a hill-jack.


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:15 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Multiflora,

You are certainly welcome your your opinion and views, however misguided they maybe. Not all of Georges great Ryman dogs ended up in WV. Sense my Grandfather was one of George's good friends and kept some of his breeding stock in Galeton, Pa and I was taught to hunt behind Maggie May, one of Georges incredible female Ryman Setter dogs, I will tell you this the dog you see in the post is a serious Ryman Setter Grouse dog. There are others still around also, the genetic blood line was that strong.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:24 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
Nope, you are quite imaginative, David.......regardless, all birddogs are swell and amazingly accepting of our faults.


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:40 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Multiflora,

The fact is there are still Ryman type dogs around, some are watered down, others are not. You have to know where to acquire the correct dogs. Having been raised around George's real dogs I definitely know which is which. There are a lot of people who know only what the have been told or read, and most of this information is not correct. The only way you can possibly understand the dogs is to have hunted and trained the real Ryman Setter Grouse dog, under George Ryman's guidance. My grandfather owned and kept part of George's breed stock to assure the Ryman kennel would not perish from distemper, back in the day when there was no such thing as a distemper shot, to safe guard the Ryman kennel operations.
Thinking all the dogs went to WV is a big mistake.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Pine Creek Ryman Daisy, held by Brook R. An incredible Ryman Setter Grouse dog from the Sky Hawk part of the original Ryman Setter Grouse dog line.
Image

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L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:32 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
I'm sure some percentage of folks will believe any good story, David.

Enjoy your pups.


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:15 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Multifloria,

I would rather people believe what they see with their own two eyes.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Image

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L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:26 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11468
Location: Kansas
What would a person have to do to get one of those?

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:43 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Multifloria,

I would rather people believe what they see with their own two eyes.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Image


Seeing and then believing the hype presented are two different deals, David...with dogs or imaginary "special-order" scatterguns.

Your beautiful pup shown and others of that measure are available from many sources.....the dual-setter, noble head, Ryman-type, whatever are not rare.
They are wonderful bird-finders and companions when matched with the right owner...same for red dogs named Rory, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:03 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
casonet,

Drop me a PM and I will talk to you about it. Or e-mail me at [email protected].

Multiforia,

Nothing imaginary about Ryman Setter dogs or Special Order L.C. Smith guns, have owned both for many years.

Rory was a red setter with lots of physical & temperament problems, he passed away from cancer. He unfortunately was by no means the caliber of a Ryman Setter.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11468
Location: Kansas
Not serious about another dog at this time. Have an AKC field Irish Setter, an AKC Golden Retriever, and a mixed breed Border Collie all under 1 year old; all pets. Besides, we don’t have Grouse in Kansas; just wild pheasants and Quail and an occasional prairie chicken. My dogs are all pets. I use other peoples dogs for hunting. The popular dogs here are labs, Brittanys, English pointers and various other sporting types. I’m just a sucker for sporting dog pets. Nothing finer!

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:42 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:39 pm
Posts: 5010
casonet, I haven't seen any in a long time, but there used to be prairie chicken in Miami and Johnson counties. I've seen birds on the grounds of Industrial Airport and also southeast of Bucyrus.

There were jack rabbits, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11468
Location: Kansas
I’ve never seen one around here, but the quail are coming back

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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:44 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
Good time to renew the call for thorough investigation of the dog, breeder, line and fit of pup to owner at a purchase time....not to mention any creative, feel-good stuff thrown out as the truth.
It can be sad when a pup is chosen and then jettisoned because they are too much dog for a fella...never buy just for....a silly reason such as coat color or....cleverly marketed background or even a real swell story given on the Internet with only germs of truth within.
Swell stories sound good but more should be required...for the dog's sake, please.

Take your time....do the work in wading thru the Internet weeds.
Push the lies aside and find a pup that will fit you and the real world...when that happens, one can find a pup that will make the day and especially, ourselves.....better.


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:46 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
casinet,

Always a good idea to check the pedigree of the animals you purchase, no matter what kind of dribble people are putting out. Wanting to undermine the breed.

The Ryman Setters hunt all different kinds of game birds, not just Grouse of which they are exceptional. In fact Ryman Setter are bred to be layed back around the home, and great hunters in the fields and forests. Many people like them as pets. They do not really have a guard instinct however. Home protection is really not part of their genetic imprint.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:54 pm 
Utility Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:35 pm
Posts: 10
Beretta 686 onyx pro 28 gauge 28 inch with an exhibition grade cole's stock on it for grouse and woodcock.
Beretta 686 onyx 12 gauge 28 inch for pheasant.
Benelli super black eagle 2 for duck, geese, and turkey.

Always been a beretta or benelli fan... I just shoot them the best and have never had an issue with them ever


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 Post subject: Re: Bird guns?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 4:25 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 4:20 pm
Posts: 65
I have two a 16 gauge parker 28 inch barrels weight 5.10, and a 20 gauge l c smith 26 inch barrels weight 5.7 can carry all day and don,t now they are there. grouse, snipes, doves, woodcocks.




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