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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:50 pm 
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painter* wrote:
Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
geometric,

If you want a Huglu ( Parent Company of CZ) 16 gauge Ken Graft at Shooting Stars has a nice one for sale in his shop, beautiful Euro model gun with light engraving DT, Chrome Lined Barrels and Euro swivels. I almost purchased the gun myself, until he found a pre 13 L.C. Smith 20 gauge for me.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Huglu in Turkey is not the parent company of CZ in the Czech Republic.

CZ-UB contracts with Huglu, and other Turk manufacturers, to produce shotguns.

I'm thinking its more like CZ contracts various Turkish manufacturers to make shotgun parts for them and then they assemble said pieces into guns and sell those guns as their own.




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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
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Location: Central NH
DeanMk wrote:
painter* wrote:
Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
geometric,

If you want a Huglu ( Parent Company of CZ) 16 gauge Ken Graft at Shooting Stars has a nice one for sale in his shop, beautiful Euro model gun with light engraving DT, Chrome Lined Barrels and Euro swivels. I almost purchased the gun myself, until he found a pre 13 L.C. Smith 20 gauge for me.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Huglu in Turkey is not the parent company of CZ in the Czech Republic.

CZ-UB contracts with Huglu, and other Turk manufacturers, to produce shotguns.

I'm thinking its more like CZ contracts various Turkish manufacturers to make shotgun parts for them and then they assemble said pieces into guns and sell those guns as their own.

I don't think so. The guns are made in Turkey, marked as CZ and shipped to either the Czech Republic, or CZ-USA.

CZ doesn't make shotguns. They make rifles and pistols, and do a great job at it.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:39 pm 
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...that means I should be able to find the same gun, under a Turkish label....hmm...


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Dave,
Thanks for the tip but the 16 ga. SXS is still a ways down the line on my "want" list. There are a couple other things that have to happen before that can happen!


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:26 am 
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Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 9:19 am
Posts: 1967
Location: Columbia, SC
DeanMk wrote:
...that means I should be able to find the same gun, under a Turkish label....hmm...


Yes, Huglu is the name you'd look for. I don't know if there are any importers other than CZ at this time but there were 3 or 4 others in the past selling essentially the same guns with only cosmetic differences.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4384
Location: Western Tampa, FL
Having owned a wheel barrel full of 16 gauge guns of different types; I no longer have that urge. I just don't. However, if someone was to gift me the one shown in the link below, I would definitely go back to being an aficionado of the 16.

Also, your name would be venerated in my household for generations to come!

PM me for address and FFL info and THANK YOU SO MUCH! :B3

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns- ... =101496774


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:21 pm 
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FlyChamps wrote:
DeanMk wrote:
...that means I should be able to find the same gun, under a Turkish label....hmm...


Yes, Huglu is the name you'd look for. I don't know if there are any importers other than CZ at this time but there were 3 or 4 others in the past selling essentially the same guns with only cosmetic differences.

I've got a sneakin' suspicion that most of your economically priced shotguns on the market come from Turkey, whether they say so or not.
I know the infamous Hatfield $99 Walmart shotgun is actually a Hatsan Optima.
I think the Stevens 555 O/U is actually a KOFS O/U.
...every shotgun offered by Stoeger...etc., etc....


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I have a sneaking feeling that you are right! That is where the cheap labor is, or at least one of the places & they also have some talent for making guns. I would also venture a guess that the quality of the gun is directly proportional to the quality of the quality control. I suspect CZ has a lot of influence on that!


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:08 pm 
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geometric wrote:
I have a sneaking feeling that you are right! That is where the cheap labor is, or at least one of the places & they also have some talent for making guns. I would also venture a guess that the quality of the gun is directly proportional to the quality of the quality control. I suspect CZ has a lot of influence on that!

...and I would venture that YOU are correct, as well!
Its an unusual mix of good craftsmanship at an economical price.
I think, in the US, we're so used to super inflated prices, and getting nothing for something, that we just can't believe it when such a deal comes along.....there has to be some catch, somewhere.
However, the QC obviously isn't there, as well. So the instance of getting a lemon goes up...and maybe, that's the catch.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
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Location: Central NH
DeanMk wrote:
...that means I should be able to find the same gun, under a Turkish label....hmm...

...and if you want something other than a break action you'd look for something produced by Akkar. I believe they make the pumps and semi's for CZ.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:49 pm
Posts: 36
I use a 16 gauge often on wild pheasants. The best load is the Hevi Bismuth Waterfowl in a #4. I can take any pheasant that the 12 gauge boys can using the Hevi Bismuth.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:02 pm 
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Berettahunter's on it!
I'd completely forgotten about Hevi-Shot.
Your post just urged me to take a peek at their website.
WOW! Hevi-Bismuth Waterfowl load is no joke!
1 1/8 oz. of 2,4 or 6 @ 1350!
My preference is for #6's, but regardless of shot size, that's a GREAT pheasant load!

Thanks BH! -b


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2554
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
GMO crops must be doing a number on pheasants these days....appears much like MMA folks getting bulked up, when one reads many of the posts here.

Almost makes a fella afraid to knock the frost from the switch, feel the wind that left Canada a few days ago or see the country ahead roll like ocean waves....almost.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:51 pm
Posts: 26
RandyWakeman wrote:
870-LEFTY wrote:
Is it enough gun or is a 12ga. better?


Both 20 gauges and 12 gauges are better.


Not true in any way. A 16 gauge works well on pheasants. A 16 gauge Model 12 with a Modified choke and good ammo (Remington Express 1 1/8 4s or 6s for instance) is indistinguishable from a 12 gauge in performance plus it is a light nice handling setup as it was built on the same frame as 20s and 28s.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:02 pm 
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I would like to see the ballistics data that supports the 16 over the 20 and the 12.

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:03 pm 
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DesertMuleDeer wrote:
RandyWakeman wrote:
870-LEFTY wrote:
Is it enough gun or is a 12ga. better?


Both 20 gauges and 12 gauges are better.


Not true in any way. A 16 gauge works well on pheasants. A 16 gauge Model 12 with a Modified choke and good ammo (Remington Express 1 1/8 4s or 6s for instance) is indistinguishable from a 12 gauge in performance plus it is a light nice handling setup as it was built on the same frame as 20s and 28s.


Of course it is blatantly true, and this is coming from an old one-time 16 gauge aficionado who hunted wild pheasants for many years with Model 24's, Sweet Sixteens, various O/U 16 gauges, etc., etc., etc. Twenty gauges and 12 gauges out-pattern and out-perform 16 gauges all day and all night.

There is nothing wondrous about a hole in a barrel, it is the ammo. Factory buffered 20 gauge loads, factory hi-density loads, and of course TSS loads are readily available for the 20 gauge-- but if you want the best ammunition components in a factory 16 gauge load, you're fresh out of luck, and have been for a very, very long time.

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http://randywakeman.com/


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:51 pm
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I’ve never used TSS but with lead, clearly, an 1 1/8 of shot at 1295 works just fine through a 16 bore. Unless, you’re trying to sell new guns and ammo on the Internet in which case it doesn’t work as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:51 pm 
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casonet wrote:
I would like to see the ballistics data that supports the 16 over the 20 and the 12.


Here it is: "_________", which is to say there isn't any. A current .410 TSS load shames the 16 gauge as a turkey gun. With Apex TSS loads, the .410 bore puts 1-3/4 oz. #5 lead 12 gauge turkey loads to shame. A 1-3/4 oz. #5 lead load has about 300 pellets. The Apex PT-.410 TSS load has 350 pellets; the Apex .410 Turkey Ninja load has about 365 pellets. Both pattern more efficiently than 12 gauge lead loads, both have over 1.8 inches of penetration at 40 yards, and they are no-tox loads as well.





TSS is of course pricey, but Bismuth is an affordable alternative, with BOSS 1-1/8 oz. 20 gauge loads available. As the case capacity of the 3 inch 20 gauge dwarfs the 16 gauge, all that BOSS can stuff into a 16 gauge hull is 1 oz.

I suppose we do get blinded by an imaginary love of a gauge from time to time, only because we own one.

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http://randywakeman.com/


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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:03 pm 
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DesertMuleDeer wrote:
I’ve never used TSS but with lead, clearly, an 1 1/8 of shot at 1295 works just fine through a 16 bore. Unless, you’re trying to sell new guns and ammo on the Internet in which case it doesn’t work as well.


Very true.

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 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:26 am 
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Location: Poulsbo, Washington
EricB wrote:
DesertMuleDeer wrote:
I’ve never used TSS but with lead, clearly, an 1 1/8 of shot at 1295 works just fine through a 16 bore. Unless, you’re trying to sell new guns and ammo on the Internet in which case it doesn’t work as well.


Very true.

Agreed.




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