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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:10 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Multiflora,

The L.C. Smith 16 was designed for 2 1/2" shells, Use the Poly or RST #6 or #5 SpredR shells for Pheasant, they will do the job if you do yours. #8's & 7 1/2's for Grouse and Woodcock. If you take care of your L.C. Smith double gun as per the factory instructions you will have no problems with your stocks. Mine are in perfect shape after many generations of use, shooting all different kinds of birds and Ducks.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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16 Hammer Guns also!
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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:28 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2570
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
That.....was my point and it can be a consideration when purchasing a used shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:50 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Multiflora,

Your point is well taken and it's why for years we had to roll our own 16 gauge 2 1/2" shells. Many of the modern bird hunters use the 12 gauge L.C Smith double guns, because they were designed for 2 3/4 shells even back in the early 1900's. The RST and Poly shells now give us the ability to order and have the 2 1/2" 16's delivered right to our doors. Great stuff for the classic 16 gauge double gun shooter for sure. No more having to reload all my 16 gauge shells. Nice soft shooting shells that work just like the old slow burning shells of the past, even with the correct patterns with our M/F original guns.

I recently picked up an old antique Crescent 16 gauge Hammer Gun for Grouse and Woodcock hunting, patterns perfectly for Grouse and Woodcock hunting from 25 yards out. Ya got to love these classic American, German and Brit double guns with the new 2 1/2" RST & Poly SpredR shells.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

16 Gauge Crescent Hammer Gun engineered for 2 1/2" shells.
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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:00 pm 
Shotgun Expert
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Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 27050
Location: Plainfield, IL
Chip1975 wrote:
I am looking to pick up a shotgun this year and will most likely go used. My question is should I let the fact that a gun has fixed chokes stop me from buying it? I will be using it mostly for pheasants in SE PA and the occasional trap/skeet shooting. My first choice would be a 16 gauge in either a pump or double gun.


A fixed choke gun for both trap and skeet makes no sense,

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:02 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2570
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
The inches of cartridge length is not the sole consideration.....the load in the shell of any measurement can often be a greater consideration with older shotguns.

I would assume that LC Smith advised a load rather than a shell measurement alone....for a reason.
To that point, I'm not sure that LC ever advised 1 3/8 ounce loads in their standard 12 gauge, as ok....and yet, that load is often found in 2 3/4" 12 gauge shells.
There are, of course, different levels of 1 1/4 ounce oomph in 12 gauge loads as well.

Most understand this but folks newer...may not, if length appears to end the issue of what to use.
Let's effort to keep the Elsies whole.


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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:23 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Chips1975,

I agree with Randy, I use a screw in multi choke gun for shooting clays, and my standard choked double guns for hunting. If you like the screw in chokes and still want a nice double gun for hunting, they are also available SXS or O/U.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:47 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Mutliflora,

I agree use the shells specified by Hunter Arms/L.C. Smith in the L.C. Smith double guns. It is the responsibility of the owner to know his double gun and use the correct size shells for the guns.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:58 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Gentlemen,

It is true that the 16 gauge L.C. Smith double gun was designed with 2 9/16" Chambers for 2 1/2" shells. 2 1/2" RST & Poly SpredR shells work well in the Classic American and German Best double guns, 8's and 7 1/2's for Grouse, Woodcock and Quail, #5 & #6's for Pheasants. If you want a bigger pay load, use the 12 gauge gun with the 2 3/4" shells.

Used properly the L.C. Smith 16 gauge double gun is a great upland bird gun, always has been always will be.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:04 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3176
Location: WY
Get a used Ithaca 37 or wingmaster in 12ga or 20ga. Find one with a 26 or 28 inch barrel with a fixed modified choke for $300-$400. Buy ammo at Wally World. Go shooting/hunting. Boom. Done.

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:55 am 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:58 am
Posts: 1898
Location: Omaha, NE
That’s sound advice.

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:12 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1361
Chip1975 wrote:
Zbigniew wrote:
No, but why a 16 gauge? Ammo is more plentiful and cheaper for 12 or 20 gauge.


I am by no means dead set on 16 gauge. I just like the idea of a gun that has the power of a 12, but the weight of a 20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i've always thought of 16s as carrys like a 12 hits like a 20 costs to feed like a 28.

i like a 20ga wingmaster for your stated uses. fixed modified choke would be fine but i don't think you'd pay much more at all to get a modern choke tube version. they are very fine guns and worth the $$ IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:33 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 3103
Location: MO
16 gauge side by side with fixed chokes?

Wow, you really want to make it hard on yourself. I foresee the people you shoot with laughing at you and not with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:17 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Old Farmer,

I do not think Upland Dan was talking about shooting any kind of Clays. His advise is good for the beginning upland hunter.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:41 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Chips1975,

If you like 16 gauge guns, the American Classic guns are real nice. I have more than a few of them and have killed many many Pheasants in Lancaster County Pa, especially when I was a young man. If you want to use 2 3/4" shells look for a later made L.C. Smith 16 gauge double gun, they are around. I have a 16 gauge 00 L.C. Smith gun that has 2 sets of barrels one for Pheasant and Ducks, and one for Grouse, Woodcock & Quail. The Pre 13 gun has 2 9/16" Chambers for 2 1/2" shells, and there has never been any problem shooting wild Pheasant with that 16 gauge double gun. If you want to put more lead in the air pick up a nice Pre 13 L.C. Smith 12 gauge, these pre 13 guns will cost you a little more money however, unless you can get a super good deal on one in great shape. The 12 gauge guns are all chambered for 2 3/4 shells the Long Rangers even take 3" shells.

If you like the pump guns, the later made Winchester Model 12's are chambered for 2 3/4 shells also. The early M12 is chambered for 2 1/2" shells, both of these are nice old 16 gauge guns, that will last a life time also. Nothing wrong with hunting with a 16 gauge gun, lots of good Classic guns available on the used market for reasonable prices. The 16 gauge M12 most times will cost you less than a good L.C. Smith 16 gauge double gun, in fact if you look around you can probably pick one up for between $650.00 and $800.00, in real decent shape. Most of the M12 guns are choked M or F, either is good for shooting Pheasant. I opened the choke on the M12 we own years ago, to IC for hunting Grouse and Woodcock here in Potter County, Pa.

If you intend to shoot a lot of clays, I would recommend a more modern gun with multi chokes. They are available in 16 gauge also.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:08 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:31 pm
Posts: 411
Location: phila
just an option i'll throw out there ...

look for an older pump that has a poly choke on it.
they work well ,lets you dial anything from slugs to xfull.
and often a gun sporting a poly is cheaper then a "untouched"gun
a least with m37s they are.


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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:45 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2427
Location: Central NH
I'll throw in an option for a classic gun that can shoot modern ammo.

It's tough to kill a LeFever Nitro Special. Built for modern full length nitro loads with all the class of an older gun that might have short chambers or Damascus barrels. Available in 12, 16, 20, and .410.

I have a 20, and a .410. If they had made a 28 I'd have one of those, as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Used gun advice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:43 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:38 am
Posts: 20
Location: North Bay Area
I am just gonna throw some of my own personal experience out there.

Get a 12 ga, with screw in chokes.

I have seen people handicap themselves (myself included) shooting a 20ga. My hunting partner and I once cut open several 12 and 20 ga shells, exact same brands, line, shot size, etc. We found the 12s had roughly 15-20% more pellets. If you're newer to shotgunning, hitting stuff is half the fun.

I just recently tried switching chokes in my SBE2. When I was shooting Bismuth, it patterned like poo poo. When I put steel through it, it patterned great. My point is don't hem yourself in with the possibility of having one or a few shells that work for only one or a few things.

Lastly if you're anything like me, you're gonna buy a 16 no matter what anyone else says lol. Buy the 12 first then get a 16.




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