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 Post subject: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:35 pm 
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back in the early 1960's the olin/winchester company decided to get in the skeet/trap franchise shoot club business. the models 1200/1400 were to be available for rental ect. the skeet/trap club franchise was not successful. the gun writers did not like the 1200/1400 shotguns. I liked them myself but they could have been made to have better wear capacity -- shoot longer without breaking. the BIG announcement during this time has apparently been over looked for the last 50+ years. low cost steel shot target loads for skeet and trap was announced at the time. steel shot was supposed to lower the cost of ammunition compared to lead shot. low cost steel shot apparently quietly slipped out of the picture. a large company like olin does not announce cost savings in shotshells unless it has done the research to manufacture ect. what is the story behind the olin/winchester steel shot shotshells in the early 1960's?




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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:14 am 
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Sounds very interesting. I’d like to know as well.


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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:25 pm 
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So what are the chances that steel shot may become more popular in the upcoming future? Especially with stricter environmental laws. I know some ranges, especially near water are already using steel shot, though I haven't seen any yet. Interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:51 pm 
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at the time olin/Winchester announced the franchised skeet and trap facilities the cost of 25 lb of lead shot was less than 10 George washingtons for a 25 lb bag and probably much less. reducing the cost of shot by using "cheap" steel shot for target loads would be a game changer. don't know how other skeet and trap shooting sites are getting along now but holding on -- barely would be a good assessment. see kids shooting in high school age but most of these young people will be temporary shooters -- once they leave high school and college little or not participation. a lot of donation money is making this possible. haven't see a new skeet shooter in a month of sundays. for the shooters left it is a trial to find shooting supplies -- factory ammo in very short supply and reloading components primarily lead shot expensive enough to stop reloading. lowest price I have seen lead shot available is a little less than 34 George washingtons per 25 lb bag -- if there is any left to date ect. if steel shot was available for half the cost of lead shot it would stimulate the shooting games. apparently olin/winchester was able to produce low cost steel shot in the early 1960's. surely someone is out there who knows how olin/winchester produced cheap steel shot back in the early 1960's.


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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:44 pm 
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1574trap wrote:
a large company like olin does not announce cost savings in shotshells unless it has done the research to manufacture ect. what is the story behind the olin/winchester steel shot shotshells in the early 1960's?


Olin didn't do much of anything as far as cost of manufacture back then. Have you heard of the Super-X Model One?

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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:02 am 
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Steelie68 wrote:
So what are the chances that steel shot may become more popular in the upcoming future? Especially with stricter environmental laws. I know some ranges, especially near water are already using steel shot, though I haven't seen any yet. Interesting.


There are some upsides to steel for clays. The shot is hard and round. It patterns well and breaks clays without an issue. The negative reaction to steel for clays seems unreasonable. I think a lot of it is due to the reclaimed shot market and the concern for adding more steel to the mix for sorting. In truth, steel is better as a clay breaker than a bird killer. The idea of moving up one or two sizes is ridiculous when it comes to steel on clays. Foot pounds of energy is not an indicator of the effectiveness of a shotgun pellet.

I don't know about cheap Winchester steel in the 60's. To a reloader the added cost of steel wads makes saving money unlikely compared to lead.

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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:40 am 
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Steelie68 wrote:
So what are the chances that steel shot may become more popular in the upcoming future?


Close to zero. Small steel pellets ricochet, they are bulky enough to destroy all gauges other than 12 gauge, they are still tougher on barrels than lead, the ballistics are poor, and steel is more expensive. Reloaders would have a major league headache.

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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:15 pm 
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Location: Deutschland, Deutschland über alles
Steelie68 wrote:
So what are the chances that steel shot may become more popular in the upcoming future? Especially with stricter environmental laws. I know some ranges, especially near water are already using steel shot, though I haven't seen any yet. Interesting.


It might. When I lived in the NL, lead shot was banned as being harmful to the environment. The dutch shoot a lot more skeet than trap and I was a skeet shooter there. Because steel shot has less mass than lead, you need a larger pellet. I think we shot 24g of #7.5 shot as the equivalent of #9 lead shot. Popular offerings were from Gyttorp, B&P, and Winchester.

There was a lot of concern that the steel shot would harm the barrels of higher end guns. I recall there being at least a dozen very high end B25 skeet guns at my club. Now you will hear from all kinds of internet experts that you cannot shoot steel shot through a Belgian browning “because Browning says so on their web site” but a few guys from my club took a trip to Liege and talked straight to the gun elves there who assured them they could shoot steel through their skeet guns. There are restrictions on how tight your choke is and how large the shot you are shooting but skeet shooters were good to go with a B25 choked SK/SK as long as they didn’t shoot anything bigger than 24g of #7.steel. Trap shooters were out of luck.

Now, on to performance. There was a guy at my club who shot in Athens in 2004 for the NL. One year, he shot 122/125 in the world cup in Acapulco with 24/25 in the final to take 5th place. That is 146/150 in big boy skeet using lead shot. A few months later, he shot in the Dutch championships where he was forced to shoot steel and he shot 123/125 in the prelim rounds and 25/25 in the final for 148/150 in big boy skeet. That shows that there was no disadvantage to shooting steel. I shot as many straights in the NL in big boy skeet using steel as I have shot with Lead in Germany and Italy so my experience is that as far as skeet goes, you can use steel and not handicap yourself in any way whatsoever.

the weird thing is that 1000 shells of 24g #7 steel shot costs less money in the NL than 1000 rounds of 24g of #9 lead shot in Germany or Italy. Go figure.

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 Post subject: Re: low cost steel shot
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:58 am 
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jerrys wrote:
the weird thing is that 1000 shells of 24g #7 steel shot costs less money in the NL than 1000 rounds of 24g of #9 lead shot in Germany or Italy.


Worth noting.




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