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 Post subject: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:02 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 520
Location: Missoula, MT
Sometimes if feel that my trigger finger sort of gets stuck and I don't pull the trigger exactly when I want to. (I pull late.)

I put the first pad of my finger on the trigger (as if I am shooting a pistol).

Have any of you folks ever experienced this and, if so, how did you correct it?

One shooter at my club told me he keeps his trigger finger straight (outside of the trigger guide) until he is ready to pull the trigger.

Thanks,

Randy



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I've had many disappointments in life. Shooting a bad round of skeet is not one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:20 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5736
Location: Northern Virginia
Release trigger!

Not being able to pull the trigger when you want to is a flinch!


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:25 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 629
randyflycaster wrote:
Sometimes if feel that my trigger finger sort of gets stuck and I don't pull the trigger exactly when I want to. (I pull late.)

I put the first pad of my finger on the trigger (as if I am shooting a pistol).

Have any of you folks ever experienced this and, if so, how did you correct it?

One shooter at my club told me he keeps his trigger finger straight (outside of the trigger guide) until he is ready to pull the trigger.

Thanks,

Randy

That is the beginnings of a flinch. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's the facts of the matter. It starts with the sensation that you "just couldn't pull the trigger" or that the trigger is stuck. It progresses to more occurrences, closer together.

In my case, my flinch progressed to the point that it looked like my whole body convulsed when I couldn't pull the trigger. It wasn't recoil induced, either. My worst episode was duiring a .410 event; I flinched at least 20 times in that 100 targets.

You're going to hear lots of things to try and I have probably tried them all.
Several things that can possibly give you some help include:
1. Use just the tip of your finger to pull the trigger
2. Set your hand on the grip to give as "straight back" pull of the trigger as possible
3. Look hard at the target, not letting your eye wander anywhere but the target.
4. Shoot as quickly as you can.
5. Set your gun up so you have to float the target, which prevents you from losing sight of the target.

After you've tried everything without success..............get a release trigger.

I didn't want a release.......and still don't, but it was that or I'd have to quit shooting.

If you're not shooting a gun that can have a release made for it, start looking. You WILL need it.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:52 am
Posts: 442
Location: Eastern Kentucky
I was missing about 3 targets per 100 to the same problem you're having. Therefore the best I could possibly do was a 97 if I did everything right on the other 97 targets. Upon going to a release trigger I went to AAA in three guns over a two year period and my doubles from 3-5 also improved. I should have done it about three years earlier.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:18 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 520
Location: Missoula, MT
Folks,

thanks so much. No, it is not the news I wanted to hear.

Any idea what might have caused the flinch? I did go to electronic hearing awhile ago so I could hear the trap house. I use light loads and have a recoil reducer and a gun that weights almost 9.5 lbs. I don't think recoil is a problem. I do not flinch when I shoot pistol.

Randy

_________________
I've had many disappointments in life. Shooting a bad round of skeet is not one of them.


Last edited by randyflycaster on Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:29 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5736
Location: Northern Virginia
Several reasons for flinching. I believe mine was mostly target-panic.....or doubting your lead at the last minute when you think you should shoot.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:56 pm 
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Gee, I didn't know that I had so much company on this board as a release trigger shooter. I've been shooting release triggers for at least 16 years.

Anyway, to the OP, yep, it sounds like the start of a flinch/freeze problem. The advice from others above is pretty much in line with my thinking on it. I can't explain WHY shooters have these flinch/freeze problems, but unfortunately some do.

I had people tell me it was due to all kinds of bad shooting habits that I had. Some said it was due to looking at the front bead. Some said I lost sight of the target before I shot. Some said, that I was trying to aim. Some said that my gun didn't fit me. Some said it was too heavy loads.

I can't really say what caused my flinching problem. All I know is that as soon as I switched to a release trigger, all of those problems magically disappeared because I stopped flinching. Oh, and my scores improved too.

Yep, it's a pain in the axx to have to have your target guns converted to release trigger, but once you acknowledge that all the so-called miracle cures that people suggest are never going to work for you, then the decision to switch to release triggers becomes quite easy. As long as you think there is some easy and magic cure just around the corner, you'll keep having the problem and it will gradually get worse over time. Actually, I think the problem starts to accelerate after a certain period of time. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 520
Location: Missoula, MT
I believe most of my flinching occurs on those long incomers.

Randy

_________________
I've had many disappointments in life. Shooting a bad round of skeet is not one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:46 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6340
Location: Mascoutah IL
randyflycaster wrote:
Any idea what might have caused the flinch? I did go to electronic hearing awhile ago so I could hear the trap house. I use light loads and have a recoil reducer and a gun that weights almost 9.5 lbs. I don't think recoil is a problem. I do not flinch when I shoot pistol.


I think most flinches are due to your brain is telling you it's time to "SHOOT" while at the same time telling you that you are not on target and will miss if you do.

Is your new hearing protection causing you to lift your head off the stock?


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:54 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 520
Location: Missoula, MT
No, my electronic hearing (buds) is not causing me to lift my head, but I am wondering if I am lifting my head and not realizing it. Would that cause my flinch?

Last week in practice I shot 100 rounds and had 1 flinch.

Yesterday, I had 3 or 4. Interestingly, I shot poorly, worse than the week before.

I often ride my incomers too long.

Randy

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I've had many disappointments in life. Shooting a bad round of skeet is not one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:18 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6340
Location: Mascoutah IL
randyflycaster wrote:
I am wondering if I am lifting my head and not realizing it. Would that cause my flinch?


I think anything that causes you to not be on target when it reaches the break point that is ingrained into your subconscious can induce a flinch.

I occasionally experience a flinch shooting skeet and I am sure it occurs when something happens during my swing to get me off target but the distraction or head lifting that got me off target is fixed at the break point so I know I will miss the target at the same time my brain is telling me to shoot because of the ingrained break point.

I have never flinched shooting sporting clays because I don't' have an ingrained break point. If I realize I'm off target I can easily adjust my planned break point because it's not been firmly established by shooting hundreds of thousands of targets at exactly the same place for several decades.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:08 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 520
Location: Missoula, MT
Folks,

Thanks so, so much for all your help.

After reading your comments I now believe my flinch is probably coming from visual problems.

I am therefore wondering if I can cure my flinch by curing my underlying visual shooting defects.

(A double release trigger is about $1100.)

Right now, with covid, I shoot only by myself. Does it pay for me to try to cure my flinch or should I just get a release trigger? After all, Ulysess' experience might apply to me as well.

Randy

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I've had many disappointments in life. Shooting a bad round of skeet is not one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:12 am 
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randyflycaster wrote:
Folks,

Thanks so, so much for all your help.

After reading your comments I now believe my flinch is probably coming from visual problems.

I am therefore wondering if I can cure my flinch by curing my underlying visual shooting defects.

(A double release trigger is about $1100.)

Right now, with covid, I shoot only by myself. Does it pay for me to try to cure my flinch or should I just get a release trigger? After all, Ulysess' experience might apply to me as well.

Randy


Yep, it's expensive to get an O/U converted to double release. What I did to start on the release trigger journey was to purchase a Remington 1100 release trigger assembly. I already had the 1100 shotgun, so all I had to do was swap the pull trigger assembly for the release trigger assembly. The release trigger assembly was about $200 if I remember correctly.

Once I concluded that a release trigger was what I needed, then I had my O/U's converted to release triggers. Then I sold the 1100 release trigger assembly for what I paid for it. Total cost to find out whether the release trigger was what I needed was ZERO dollars.

Long, slow incomers are the worst for flinching on. Do only a "soft mount" until the target gets closer to your break point. As the target gets close to your break point, THEN complete the mount. Too much time to think about the shot is not good. Even with a release trigger, I often don't set the trigger until the target gets within range.

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Please post For Sale items in the proper Classified section.

Semi-Auto Classifieds is ONLY for Complete Semi-Auto shotguns.
Over/Under Classifieds is ONLY for Complete O/U shotguns.
Items other than a complete shotgun go in OTHER Classifieds.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 520
Location: Missoula, MT
Got a lower quote. Do I need a single or double conversion?

Randy

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I've had many disappointments in life. Shooting a bad round of skeet is not one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 629
randyflycaster wrote:
Got a lower quote. Do I need a single or double conversion?

Randy

Double. That was the advice given to me when I was in your position. I've also observed one of the members of our club who went the release/pull route and he ended up with double releases. So, short circuit the deal and go straight for the double release.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:31 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5736
Location: Northern Virginia
Randy, what type of gun do you shoot?


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:46 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:57 pm
Posts: 97
I switched to a double release five years ago. I wish I would have done it as soon as I realized I was flinching. Mine flinch was due to poor ammo selection.

I now have trigger control that affords me a better shot placement. I would never go back to a pull even if it was available. It raised my averages and made me a better shooter.

I recommend practicing operating your gun while holding the trigger back. This simulates ejecting the shell when the gun is live. This happens quite often and is the most dangerous operation in a release. Please be careful, I’ve placed many divots in the dirt and it angers me when I make that mistake.

I had Krieghoff do mine. I would highly recommend the best release trigger you can get. I’ve felt some absolutely horrible releases. There is a difference!

Best of luck in your endeavor. If you want to talk about recommendations, feel free to Message me.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:04 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 520
Location: Missoula, MT
This book by Michael Keyes, an eye doctor, I believe, has an extensive section about flinching.

Realizing that I have a slight flinching problem is new to me. I guess I am wondering if, now that I know it is a visual problem, I can solve it with better technique. After all, will a release trigger solve the underlying problem or just cover it up? And if it does cover it up, will the problem cause me to still miss a few targets?

I want to shoot at least a few more times before I switch to a release trigger. Besides, if my flinch, I find, never occurs on outgoers I might need only a single release, which is what someone at my club has, and he shoots Trap doubles.

What an interesting, enlightening discussion.

https://www.amazon.com/Further-Adventur ... oks&sr=1-2

Randy

_________________
I've had many disappointments in life. Shooting a bad round of skeet is not one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
Posts: 5576
What gun, and when was the last time it was serviced.

Hence K80 triggers to set to break at 3lbs, will break at 3 lbs, right up to the point that the parts start to wear/need to be replaced, and then you can get that funky need to pull 4lb once in a while, that may seem like your having a flicking problem to others, since your not used to pulling the trigger that hard to get it to fire.


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 Post subject: Re: Still having finger/trigger problems.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:43 am 
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Flinching is not a problem that "ages" well. In other words, time is not on your side. You may be flinching on only one type presentation today, but tomorrow you'll likely find some other types of presentations that you flinch on. And the longer it goes, the more often you'll flinch on many different presentations.

I know it's hard to accept at this point. It took me a long time to accept it too. I didn't want to believe that I had a shooting problem that I couldn't fix by some method or change other than changing how I fired the gun.

Sure, you could have just one trigger converted to "release" right now, but the odds are very good that within a few months you'll be sending your gun back again to have the other trigger converted to release too. It costs considerably more in shipping when you have to send it twice... not to mention the inconvenience of being without your gun for several weeks at a time.

It's not the end of the world to have to shoot a release trigger on your shotgun. I can still shoot pull triggers on my pistols and rifles. And I have a HD shotgun with a pull trigger. I just have to remember not to yell "PULL" before shooting some home invader. :wink:

BTW, light trigger pulls are not good for someone with a flinching problem. If you're going to shoot a pull trigger, you're less likely to flinch with a 4.5 to 5.0 pound pull that has some creep and stacking before it goes off. The last thing you want is to be surprised when the gun goes off. Shotgun shooting is TOTALLY different from precision rifle shooting.



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Please post For Sale items in the proper Classified section.

Semi-Auto Classifieds is ONLY for Complete Semi-Auto shotguns.
Over/Under Classifieds is ONLY for Complete O/U shotguns.
Items other than a complete shotgun go in OTHER Classifieds.


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