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Beretta Skeet choke question

8K views 24 replies 13 participants last post by  J.Fred_Muggs 
#1 ·
Have 4 SK marked Beretta Optima Victory chokes

2 are marked SK
2 are marked SK-USA

Is there a difference ?
 
#3 ·
The 2 marked 'skeet' are likely negative constriction chokes. The Beretta website lists them as 0.759 muzzle diameter vs 0.732 for optima bore diameter. The skeet-usa chokes are 0.005 constriction (should be about 0.727 at the muzzle)
 
#4 ·
#7 ·
Things have changed over the years, including shotshell ammo components. Different shotguns pattern differently. Different ammo patterns differently in the same shotgun.

Oberfell and Thompson, and Bob Brister probably did the most extensive testing of shotgun chokes ever. Both say that, contrary to popular belief, a cylinder choke generally provides excellent patterning. Oberfell and Thompson say they produce the most even patterns of all.

Also, I remember reading about an Olympic skeet team from somewhere other than the US that swept the events one year using larger than bore diameter "chokes". They created an interest in, and fairly popular use of, those types chokes for a while.

Currently, it seems most shooters prefer a .005" constriction for skeet. Maybe it will change again in the future. The only thing that seems certain is that shotguns chokes are mysterious.
 
#8 ·
Could be the game itself. How much American skeet is shot in Europe? 0.005 constriction works well for American skeet, I've no idea if its right for international skeet. Could be negative constriction and 28" bbls are the best combo for international skeet (?)
 
#9 ·
John H said:
Could be the game itself. How much American skeet is shot in Europe? 0.005 constriction works well for American skeet, I've no idea if its right for international skeet. Could be negative constriction and 28" bbls are the best combo for international skeet (?)
Could very well be...

I'm a casual skeet shooter who uses field guns on the skeet field to shoot for fun, not competition. I have some equipped with US style Skeet chokes, some with Euro Skeet chokes and some with Cylinder or Improved Cylinder chokes or a combination of Cylinder/Improved Cylinder.

I see no difference in performance and seem to be able to miss birds equally well with any choke!
 
#10 ·
desmobob, that place "someplace other than the US" was Russia! I believe that you are referring to the Tula choke. In fact, my Smith and Wesson 1000 Super Skeet has a Tula Choke. I did read somewhere, that the Tula choke was only effective because the Russians were still using cardboard wads, whereas the US had already switched to shot cups. Perhaps someone can comment. In any case, when we refer to other countries, we are presumably talking about International Skeet and not American skeet. All that being said, Americans are very equipment oriented (IMHO). It should be capable of empirical verification what constriction choke gives the best pattern at a given range using given shot. Once that is known, the shooter can decide, based on where he breaks the target, which choke is best for him. The problem for beginning shooters is that they may break low 7, much closer than High 2! This is for 12 ga. With the sub gauges used in American Skeet, the situation is more complicated. Some have advocated using full choke with the 410, for instance. However, the 410 may be a law unto itself!
Peter
 
#11 ·
pknimrod said:
desmobob, that place "someplace other than the US" was Russia! I believe that you are referring to the Tula choke.
You're right, Peter... that's the Olympic team and the choke I was thinking of. J_Fred_Muggs was familiar with the story, too.
 
#12 ·
Yes there is a difference. But what difference in the pattern it makes I do not know.

It is a little confusing but the so called "negative" skeet choke still has some constriction. The constriction is not at the muzzle though. There is a constriction and then the choke flares to more than the bore diameter.

My gun came with the Optima HP choked and the package contains a US skeet choke and a cylinder choke. So that is what I shoot at skeet.

To add to the Beretta choke confusion the choke marked cylinder has .003" or .004" (I forgot which) constriction so it would be marked a skeet choke by most manufacturers. But for some reason Beretta calls it a cylinder even though it has constriction. Patterns pretty good.
 
#13 ·
The late Don Zutz would sometimes bring a gun to the skeet range that he would later write about, having one of us shoot it and give our impression of that particular shotgun. On one occasion, Don offered me a European model Winchester 101 (wasn't being made at the time for the US market). and I shot a round with it. After, I asked what chokes were in the gun, and Don told me to take a look. There weren't any! First, I had shot a good score, and second, I was worried I had done some damage to the shotgun. Don indicated that I hadn't hurt the gun at all and that no choke/cylinder choke was more than adequate for shooting skeet.
 
#15 ·
Stubbled upon this post and am not sure what to think. I have a 12 gauge 686 Sporting manufactured in 1993 or 1994 that I have just began shooting skeet with after a 27 year hiatus. My chokes purchased new with the gun are marked PB-SK-SP. From this thread it would seem that I have international Skeet Chokes.

I am shooting light 3/4 oz loads and am wondering if I need to buy some aftermarket skeet tubes for a greater constriction? I am not a good enough shot to know if these chokes are causing misses. I also have 1993-1994 vintage 20 gauge 686 with factory cylinder chokes that I am also shooting light 3/4 oz loads in at the skeet range. Looking for skeet chokes for this gun is what got this research started. Looking at the link above, I assume I bought cylinder because Beretta doesn’t sell a USA Skeet choke in 20. I assume an aftermarket set of skeet chokes for the 20 gauge would work better on the range.

Thoughts about the best chokes for shooting skeet with both guns with 3/4 oz. lead?
 
#16 ·
This is just my opinion and may be worth absolutely nothing. But your getting it for free, so nothing lost. 😁

You are way over thinking this. I am 98.732% confident that none of your misses are choke related. If you have your eyes on the target, head on the gun, and the correct amount of forward allowance - the target will break. The strength of the break MAY be impacted by which choke the pellets passed through, but the break will occur none the less.

Your write-up indicates that you are getting back into Skeet on a recreational basis vs registered competition. Your best chance of improving your overall scores if that is your goal would better be served by taking a Skeet lesson or 3 from a professional instructor, not over thinking your equipment. Your chokes are plenty good enough as they are in both guns for recreational Skeet.
 
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#18 ·
J. Fred Muggs, thanks for the response.

So from Beretta’s website for 12 gauge: Constrictions or dimensions on my Beretta...
Improved Cylinder0.715
Skeet USA0.718
Cylinder0.723
Skeet European0.73 < my chokes
Bore0.723

How can it not matter that am shooting skeet with chokes more open than cylinder with only 3/4 oz. loads? I understand about tube sets needing to fit, but I don’t understand why shooting with chokes more open (+.007) than cylinder when skeet chokes are typically .005 less than cylinder doesn’t matter. Not sure what been there done that means. Are you saying with 3/4 oz it doesn’t matter if my chokes are +.007, 0 or -.005 the pattern won’t be significantly different?

what does it mean for pattering when a choke is more open than cylinder? I would think it would be equivalent to just having barrels 2” shorter. Thoughts?
 
#20 ·

How can it not matter that am shooting skeet with chokes more open than cylinder with only 3/4 oz. loads?
Dunno. I have no idea how 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads pattern with any choke. Suspect you might want to go to IC. Certainly you want to be using #9s.

But if you are willing to shoot at least five patterns and count the holes I can give you the numbers you need.

Send me a p.m.
 
#19 ·
It's very easy to put up some 30" squares of paper or cardboard at about 25 yards and fire some of your skeet loads at them through both chokes. Then, you'll know for yourself how they pattern. Otherwise, it's just theory and/or you're merely taking someone else's word for it.

Your European skeet chokes may pattern better than the US versions with your loads. You will NEVER know for sure until you put some shots on paper.
 
#22 ·
I am using Baretta 686 and the negative choke on incomers and IC outgoing with 3/4 oz. 9. My scores are better than before and i have patterned them. I found that the load patterns a little tighter with the reduced shot charge and very uniform and even.
When questioned about the effectiveness of 3/4 i will shoot low 7 at or beyond the high house with the ic as a demo to counter the ''i need all the pellets i can get guys''. At 24 25 yards its not the loads fault.
 
#24 ·
Yes and no if you are talking about 11/8 having a larger fringe of flyers that occasionally give you a hit yes, no if you desire to center each target.
A gentleman that i shoot with on occasion and who is well known on this forum started me down the road to light shot charges 10 years ago and he has brought them up in the reloading forum many times. I asked him last year how many converts he has made other than myself. Answer none, so i have made one and she is deadly with it. I know i am preaching to the wrong choir. OP will do well if he only has faith in his gun, his load and above all himself.
 
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