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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:03 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:18 am
Posts: 192
Brownings tend to shoot tight, so I would buy cylinder chokes to shoot skeet.




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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:16 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
Posts: 2773
Bamaskeetshooter wrote:
Brownings tend to shoot tight, so I would buy cylinder chokes to shoot skeet.


No they don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:50 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
I don’t know if Browning’s ‘shoot tight’ or not. I do know that the standard Invector choke at 0.722 is the tightest Skeet designated choke on the list. All the Skeet chokes listed specify a range between 0.722 - 0.735. That’s why I’m thinking a choke at 0.727 (close to the middle of that range) might be a more forgiving choice than one at the tightest end.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:10 am 
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icyclefar wrote:
The extended chokes will protect the end of your barrel and make it easier to check them for tightness.

Either way, I’d be buying SKEET

Same here, I use two Briley extended skeet chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:57 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
wrfish wrote:
icyclefar wrote:
The extended chokes will protect the end of your barrel and make it easier to check them for tightness.

Either way, I’d be buying SKEET

Same here, I use two Briley extended skeet chokes.


I know the Bailey Skeet chokes will be 0.005 constriction from bore, but do you (or anyone) know the measured diameter of the constriction?


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 422
Westender wrote:
I know the Bailey Skeet chokes will be 0.005 constriction from bore

^^^^^IMPORTANT^^^^^

Westender wrote:
do you (or anyone) know the measured diameter of the constriction?

^^^^^NOT IMPORTANT^^^^^


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:32 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 817
Westender wrote:
I don’t know if Browning’s ‘shoot tight’ or not. I do know that the standard Invector choke at 0.722 is the tightest Skeet designated choke on the list. All the Skeet chokes listed specify a range between 0.722 - 0.735. That’s why I’m thinking a choke at 0.727 (close to the middle of that range) might be a more forgiving choice than one at the tightest end.

I think where you're getting tangled up is that the .722 dia skeet chokes are for the Invector system of chokes and the .735 dia skeet choke is for the Invector Plus system. They are not interchangeable. Thus, you have to know what system your gun has to buy chokes for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:23 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Vette Jockey2 wrote:
Westender wrote:
I don’t know if Browning’s ‘shoot tight’ or not. I do know that the standard Invector choke at 0.722 is the tightest Skeet designated choke on the list. All the Skeet chokes listed specify a range between 0.722 - 0.735. That’s why I’m thinking a choke at 0.727 (close to the middle of that range) might be a more forgiving choice than one at the tightest end.

I think where you're getting tangled up is that the .722 dia skeet chokes are for the Invector system of chokes and the .735 dia skeet choke is for the Invector Plus system. They are not interchangeable. Thus, you have to know what system your gun has to buy chokes for it.


No, I have a good understanding of that and I know exactly what my gun uses. Let me get away from numbers and names and try to clarify ‘why’ I’m asking this question.

It seems to me that, regardless of the amount of constriction from bore that any specific make or model of choke has, I think it is actually the final diameter of the choke that determines the size of the shot pattern at any given distance. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that. For a game like Skeet, target distances are for the most part known. Therefore, shooters would want to use a choke that produces the most effective pattern size at that distance.

With this in mind, and considering that we see Skeet choke diameters from many different manufacturers listed from 0.722 - 0.735 in diameter with my standard Invector chokes at the tightest end, all I’m wondering is if I should consider using the largest pattern producing option I have available for my gun that is within the range of Skeet choke diameters produced by all manufacturers?


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 422
Westender wrote:
It seems to me that, regardless of the amount of constriction from bore that any specific make or model of choke has, I think it is actually the final diameter of the choke that determines the size of the shot pattern at any given distance. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that.


You're wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:06 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 817
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Westender wrote:
It seems to me that, regardless of the amount of constriction from bore that any specific make or model of choke has, I think it is actually the final diameter of the choke that determines the size of the shot pattern at any given distance. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that.


You're wrong.

It's not fair to just announce "you're wrong". I think an explanation of your rationale is in order. I think the OP is overthinking this, but he's asking his questions in earnest.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:30 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Shooting is a hobby for me . . like many of you I expect. I like to know how and why things work, and I like discussing that. If someone can teach me something new I'm all ears.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:33 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 229
Most everybody is trying to tell you the same thing but you need to open up your ears. The diameter of the choke is relative to the diameter of the bore of the barrel. Manufactures do not make the bore of their barrels the same diameter. Choke is the constriction at the end of the barrel that will determine the size of the pattern your lead will produce. If you don't know the bore size of the barrel and the bore size of the choke you are putting into the barrel you really don't know what choke you have in it. Kolar has used a bore size of .735, .740 and .750 for their barrels over the years. I have a .740 barrel on my Kolar and the factory choke marked skeet measure .735. For my barrel it is .005 or what many consider, a skeet choke. Now I screw that choke into the .735 barrel and that would be a cylinder choke throwing a larger pattern. Finally, I screw it into the .750 barrel and have .015 restriction so in that barrel the choke is actually a light modified choke and it will throw a tighter pattern than skeet. Same choke in all three barrels marked skeet is only a skeet choke in the .740 bore sized barrel. You can say you put a skeet choke in either of the other two but what you really have is a choke that measures .735 and because the bores are different diameter the choke has either more or less constriction thus changing the choke of the barrel it was not paired with as a set.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
Posts: 2773
Westender wrote:
Shooting is a hobby for me . . like many of you I expect. I like to know how and why things work, and I like discussing that. If someone can teach me something new I'm all ears.



I think I know where you are coming from. If the hole is smaller than the constriction would actually be tighter? But that's not how the choke works. In chokes with any constriction (not open bore), there is a taper zone before the actual choke that begins the choke process. That brings the bore back in line with a standard. Without the taper, the pellets are radically jammed together and the pattern is blown to bits. At least in theory, the longer the taper the more gentle the application of the choke and the less deformation to shot string. Compare any modern choke to an original Winchoke and see how much longer it is.

I am not a fan of cylinder chokes based on testing I have seen. I think it is pretty well accepted that the application of some choke benefits the pattern. .005 seems to be reasonable number for that. Most good skeet shooters I know shoot two skeet chokes for regular American skeet.

If you choose not to believe any of this, shoot the cylinder chokes.

https://www.briley.com/c-456-understanding-chokes.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:03 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Thanks drawdc . . I believe you. Yes, I was thinking if the hole is smaller the constriction of the pattern (pattern size) will be smaller. Also, in the back of my mind I was thinking (maybe I read it somewhere but just can’t remember) the same as your comment about Cylinder chokes. Maybe that’s subconsciously why I asked the question in the first place and didn’t just go buy cylinders chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:09 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 422
Briley Helix

https://www.briley.com/p-52131-invector ... gauge.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:02 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:


Thanks, interesting innovation, but my gun uses the original standard Invector chokes, not the Plus series.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:32 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:13 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Just keep it simple. Since you already have standard invector chokes, buy yourself another IC choke to shoot skeet with.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:25 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Posts: 125
Westender, you are missing the obvious here. Go to the pattern board and shoot your shotgun. Compare patterns with cylinder and skeet. Then screw the choke in that throws the pattern that suits you. You will see constriction relative to bore is where the rubber hits the road, and you will have first hand knowledge to make your selection, like most of the rest of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Will be doing exactly that.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning choke constrictions for skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:40 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 131
Any "choke" is a measure of the degree of constriction in the last 4 or so inches of the barrel relative to the bore diameter.

Bore diameters are sometimes published by gun manufacturers and sometimes stamped on the underside of barrel sets but they are nominal. There is some tolerance at play in manufacturing and boring tubes. Is the gun brand new or used? I have a couple older doubles that are measuring more "open" in actual constriction than their factory markings.

You need an expensive and precise bore gauge and the ability to use it properly to measure the actual bore diameter for each barrel in a double gun.

As you've been told, a constriction of 5 thousandths (.005 inch) is considered a Skeet choke in the industry. If your bore was a perfect .729 in diameter then the final "skeet " diameter would be .724. If your older European double had a bore diameter of .724 then a constriction of .005 would bring it down to .719. And it your bore diameter was .732 then 5 points of constriction would be .727.

In both cases we would say it is choked as "skeet" -- .005 or "5 points" in a 12 gauge.

Is that .005 constriction the most efficient pattern in your gun for a 20 yard shot in skeet. I don't know -- you'd have to pattern your specific target loads out of each barrel to determine that. Loads differ.

So if every target matters to get you into a shoot off then have at it. You might find that your top barrel patterns more or most efficiently at 20 yards with a cylinder choke (no constriction) or with an Improved Cylinder choke (.010 constriction).




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