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 Post subject: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:58 am
Posts: 4
Guys- I shoot skeet 2x a week with a mix of good guys. We usually have a good flow and everyone has a good time. Last night, one of the novice shooters insisted on pulling the 2nd round. He was late on some pulls, which happens to everyone. But he pulled singles when it was time for doubles on #2. His response- “My bad.” Then he did it again. I sponsored the guy as a new member and still feel responsible. The guys whose doubles he screwed up are good guys who aren’t jerks. I could tell they were annoyed though. They use Shotkams and are trying to improve. So I said, “Here, please let me pull...” He said. “No, I got it.”
I said, “No you don’t. Just let me do it.” He again refused so I backed off. At the end of the round, one of the guys whose doubles he screwed up said, “That was weird. He disrupted the round..” And the guy was right. The bad puller effected the round for most of the squad.

Any ideas here? Life is short and not looking for confrontation. But last night was a buzz kill. Bad pulls happen to all of us but this was beyond that.




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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:11 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5883
Location: Northern Virginia
Sounds like the new guy could use some instruction, and also a lesson in etiquette. If you've screwed up a couple pulls, and someone else wants the button, by all means, give them the button. The mistakes he was making makes me think he really isn't experienced as a shooter of skeet, let alone a puller. Should learnt he game before impacting someone elses.

We have a team on our Thursday night league that always pulls their own targets, just has the ref score. That's a little presumptive on their part as well, to assume no one can pull targets good enough for them.

So teach the new guy the game, tell him to check his feelings at the gate, and make sure he knows the proper standing position for the ref on all stations. That's what I see screwed up the most.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 9311
Location: Rochester, NY
With an attitude like he has, he will find himself shunned in quick order. People will simply walk off the field when he is shooting/pulling and he'll find himself real lonely real quick.

Then he'll probably come on here and whine how he was ostracized from his new club and has no idea why and how everyone else at his club are elitist snobs.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 23479
Skeet_Man wrote:
With an attitude like he has, he will find himself shunned in quick order. People will simply walk off the field when he is shooting/pulling and he'll find himself real lonely real quick.

Then he'll probably come on here and whine how he was ostracized from his new club and has no idea why and how everyone else at his club are elitist snobs.

Well, if they act rude to him, they are being that way. Everyone starts off new sometime; it doesn't take much to tell him "doubles, now right?" After a few times, it should be fine; if not, just don't give him the controller. We have an older gent that shoots with us, he is now mid 80s+ and is SLOW on report pairs in sporting and marks on the wrong card sometimes so we just make sure he doesn't score or pull; problem solved.

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:15 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
Everyone starts off new sometime; it doesn't take much to tell him "doubles, now right?" After a few times, it should be fine; if not, just don't give him the controller.


His attitude doesn't jive with someone willing to learn and fit in.

Ramjamcam wrote:
So I said, “Here, please let me pull...” He said. “No, I got it.”
I said, “No you don’t. Just let me do it.” He again refused so I backed off.

_________________
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Ian Smingler
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:04 pm 
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Also sure doesn't sound like an old experienced squad doing anything AS A GROUP (Ramjam excepted) to try and help him but rather just complaining.

My son started as a trapper way back there were only hand controls; there was a fancy skeeter from TX who would start his move BEFORE he called pull and God help the kid who was a millisecond late pulling - he acted more like a jackass trap shooter whining about a slow pull when the kid was perfectly in the realm of acceptable timing.

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Last edited by oneounceload on Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:52 am
Posts: 535
Location: Eastern Kentucky
Sounds like an opportunity to practice adverse conditions you will encounter in compition. My two man team partner and I would purposely throw a slow pull or fast pull ever now and then to maintain concentration and work on not leaving the hold point without the bird.


Last edited by kyskeet on Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:55 am 
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Although it can be annoying, I agree it is not bad practice and I think we have all have made a bad pull a few times. I would talk to him away from any group and help get him some practice. Even today after decades of shooting and as a referee, I have had some shooters, who you get so into sync with that you can pull without hearing and others that will get your rhythm all screwed up.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:07 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 148
Location: Orange Park, FL
3 years ago I was shooting at The Masters in Savannah and in the last event was thrown onto my squad an 8 year old boy who's dad had just bought him a 410 pump w/ a mod choke and wanted to give the kid some experience shooting skeet. The kid nor his father(who was just a spectator) had never been on a skeet field in their life. Now imagine how disruptive that could have been as myself a AA shooter as well as the rest of the squad in The Masters. Instead of concentrating on my game I had to take it upon myself to coach the kid on every shot. Was I mad??? Nope, I enjoyed every moment of it!! Yeah I was little perturbed at management for squadding the kid in a shoot of this magnitude, but there was no reason to take it out on the kid especially knowing that this was would be his first impression on a skeet field. I high 5'd him after every station, even though I think he only hit maybe 10 or 15 out of the hundred. The kid had a blast and his father was very appreciative of me taking him under my wing. I shot like crap in that event, but it was something I had never experienced in a shoot and something I will always remember and cherish as a skeet shooter. The referee for the squad(Buck Buchanan) is a friend of mine and told me it was very admirable how I handled the situation. The rest of the squad (who I did not know) were kinda annoyed about it.

Those of us that have been around this game for a while are ambassadors of the sport no matter where and what the situation is. If I were on your squad I would have taken it as an opportunity to practice in adverse conditions and also coach the new shooter on how to pull targets. Everybody involved would have had a much better time.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:22 pm
Posts: 552
Location: Texas coast
A great reference and place to start for anyone serious about "pulling" is the referee's handbook produced by the NSSA. There are many "experienced" skeet shooters who would also benefit in a review of the handbook.

Here is a link:
http://mynssa.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2021/01/2021-Referee-Handbook.pdf

Good luck, remember it is a game and intended to be fun for recreational shooters.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:21 am
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@hawkeye - thanks for the link.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:58 am
Posts: 4
Guys, I appreciate all of the comments. A few things is he’s been shooting for 2 years. He’s a novice, not a beginner. I also want to say I pride myself as an ambassador too. I sponsored the guy and two other. new members. I’m all about helping, coaching, and making sure everyone practices gun safety. I’ve been shooting/competing for 30 years. I just never had an incident like this. So thx for the advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:30 am
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Location: Massachusetts
We had one shooter, a regular member, who never met a puller he liked. Truth be told, the guy left on his call then would proceed to blame the puller if he missed, claiming late pull. I always tried to avoid pulling for him if possible.

Sometimes a pull comes late, every now and then a call comes early. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:58 am
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It’s rare for any of the boys at our club to bark at whoever is pulling. That wouldn’t fly. Most guys are really good, or at least good enough. No complaints. And if you get a bad pull, just stop and call for another. Not asking a lot here. If you’re going take the remote, pay attention and give the guys what you’d want. But be honest if you can’t handle the extra responsibility. That’s all


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1198
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
The nice thing about just shooting informally is if you don't like the pull, don't shoot at it. No one is going to call lost or think twice about it. Of course, that's to within reason. We don't have anyone constantly blaming every miss on a bad pull either. We would weed those fellows out our club pretty quickly. I tend to be a jumpy puller. I've had to tell some shooters that once he is on the pad if he says anything, hiccups, farts or wheezes, he's getting a target. It's been my experience that loud callers don't get nearly as many bad calls. If I get a "low caller" and as a puller if I'm straining to hear a call, a shot going off at another field at the time of the call, the call may not be heard. Alternately, if I know a guy is a low caller, any sound that I think I hear, he's getting a target. If I get a look, I'll just tell them if you give me a nice loud call, you'll be more likely to get a better pull.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 193
Location: midwest
I, too, shoot with a group of guys a couple of times a week. We are all retired and shoot only for fun and the friendship we enjoy. We also don’t keep score although that doesn’t mean we don’t want to break every target. Our ages range from 65 to 83 and even though some of the guys were AA shooters in their day, time has made it more difficult to run ‘em every time.

The wife of one of the shooters would always tag along with him to the gun club and, for whatever reason, she liked to pull targets when we shot. She, quite frankly, would slow pull us on a regular basis regardless of how loudly we would call for a target. It actually was quite annoying but I can’t honestly say her lack of ability rarely prevented any of us from shooting two on low 8.

18 months ago our friend’s wife lost her battle with cancer and passed away. Having been married for over 50 years, he still has trouble sometimes coping with the loss of his wife. Even though his wife’s pulling was annoying and frustrating, we would all accept her pulling for us again.

This doesn’t exactly parallel the OP’s anecdote. Just a different variation. If we get someone who is a lousy puller we just make sure no one ever hands him the cord. We’ll even reach past or around the offending individual to give the button to someone we can trust to give us a target when we call for it. A rare instance of faulty pulls can, and is, to be expected. Several times in a round, however, isn’t acceptable. Either talk to the guy politely by yourself or just don’t let him have the button. If you sponsored him I assume you like the guy and like to shoot with him. If he is too much of an annoyance to your other squad members, you may end up shooting with your friend on a squad of two.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:22 am 
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I have been known to take the button out of a bad puller's hand if I'm not on the pad, and tell him to pay attention. It's generally a newer shooter that wants to participate to a greater degree. The other guys on the squad appreciate it. After the round, one of us will generally explain the responsibility that the puller has to his fellow shooters. Most guys listen, understand, and appreciate it. A few guys will never reach for the button again.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:58 am
Posts: 4
Love it. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:38 pm 
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I shoot with a number of guys who know how timing is important on the pulls. I am staying at a Az. and only have my wife to pull for me. Bless her heart for trying but a non shooter does not understand how important timing is when you call "pull". It really can mess up a round.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet- pulling (best practices)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:58 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 148
Location: Orange Park, FL
wrfish wrote:
I shoot with a number of guys who know how timing is important on the pulls. I am staying at a Az. and only have my wife to pull for me. Bless her heart for trying but a non shooter does not understand how important timing is when you call "pull". It really can mess up a round.


Those guys need to learn on how important it is to not move your gun til you see the target!!
A legal NSSA pull is up to 1 second after the target is called for!! I don't want to do it every time I practice, but it doesn't bother me at all to have someone new to the game pull targets for me, helps me practice for those slower pulling referees.



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