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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:07 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX USA
dogchaser37 wrote:
You need to understand how these loads came about.

It has nothing to do with recoil.

The 7/8 oz. loads came from International Trap & Skeet. The targets are more substantial than a standard clay target. The driving bands on the International targets are thick so they can be thrown at the higher velocities.

When you reduce the weight of the payload a benefit is that you can normally raise the velocity without hurting the core of the pattern. Anytime you can raise the pellet energy of a load and not suffer poor patterns you have an advantage. Yes it is small but still an advantage.

Since the heavier loads (32 gram) that were allowed in the International were banned, pattern density was lost but, with the 24 gram loads, you gained some pellet energy, without messing up the core of the pattern. They traded a little pattern density for a little pellet energy.

7/8 oz. loads @ 1325 to 1350 FPS are still a light recoiling load in a 12 gauge target shotgun.

Thanks. That’s a helpful explanation.



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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:09 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2104
Location: Central NH
1 oz @ 1180, or 1 oz at 1235...

the difference is minuscule because those numbers are averages.

When you buy your 1180 loads you're shooting some 1235 loads, and some 1140 loads.

When I buy my 1235 loads the same variance applies.


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:21 pm 
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I am going to weigh in here.......

If you are buying factory target loads, they are a lot more consistent than 1140 to 1235.

MOST factory target loads have an SD of 14 FPS or less and an extreme variation of less than 35 FPS.


If you know that you are buying loads with 95 FPS of variation you need to change what you are buying.

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:16 am
Posts: 937
So which is the best sporting clays shot size in a 12 gauge 7/8 oz. load? 7.5's or 8's?

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:05 am
Posts: 281
Location: Central PA
For me it's the 7.5 in my reloads, one less thing to think about. I have a couple of bags of 8 left but once they are gone I won't be buying them again.


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2104
Location: Central NH
dogchaser37 wrote:
I am going to weigh in here.......

If you are buying factory target loads, they are a lot more consistent than 1140 to 1235.

MOST factory target loads have an SD of 14 FPS or less and an extreme variation of less than 35 FPS.


If you know that you are buying loads with 95 FPS of variation you need to change what you are buying.

I probably should have stopped at 'the difference is miniscule'. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:36 am 
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bdog58 wrote:
Who uses 7/8's loads out of their 12? Aside from the obvious difference of 1/8-1/4 of pellets, hows it working? Differences?




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From Neil Winston.

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2736
Location: Houston, TX USA
RandyWakeman wrote:
bdog58 wrote:
Who uses 7/8's loads out of their 12? Aside from the obvious difference of 1/8-1/4 of pellets, hows it working? Differences?




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From Neil Winston.

Nice data Randy. It really suggests some value for the 1 1/8, 1145 fps loads or perhaps a compromise at 1 oz, 1180 fps. Why sacrifice likelihood of making a hit when you don’t have to? That is what I mean by controlling recoil by many factors contributing a little instead of trying to get there by pushing one factor past its sensible boundary. Heavier gun, perhaps a gas semi-auto if that suits you, good recoil pad or mechanical system, etc. and you shouldn’t have to go down to 7/8. As for the lower cost of 7/8, as is said before, that largely disappears in factory-made shells.

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
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If you compete in 12 gauge events in Sporting you are handicapping yourself with 7/8ths loads. I don't care how good a shot you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:28 am 
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More is more...

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2212
lt0026 wrote:
If you compete in 12 gauge events in Sporting you are handicapping yourself with 7/8ths loads. I don't care how good a shot you are.



^^^^^^^^


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:36 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 61
Recoil mitigation is the only virtue unless you reload which than adds a second virtue of cost savings. I can’t fathom the logic of shooting a hot 7/8 load when the recoil is equal or greater than a normal (1180fps) 1 ounce load. I’ll always take more shot over speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:42 am 
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Both of the above loads are like a kiss from an angel when it comes to recoil.

If you get picky about it, the 1 oz. load generates more recoil than the 7/8 oz. load. The 7/8 oz. load produces more pellet energy. The 1 oz. load has more pellets.

Toss up

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:20 pm
Posts: 488
Location: Mississippi
While I wouldn’t use 7/8oz in a competition, I do think a lighter load such as a 1oz can cost you a bird or two but you may gain 3 or 4 from the lower fatigue. If you’ve ever had a dud shell and noticed that you jerked the gun when it didn’t go off, you’re flinching.

Skeet shooters often shoot better averages with a 20 gauge over the 12 gauge. It’s a different game than sporting but there is evidence in that it is not all about pellet count.


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5064
Most flinches are caused by visual issues. Not recoil. Common causes are checking the barrel at the break point and covering (occluding) the target with the barrel then panicking causing a flinch. When you flinch you have a short circuit between the eyes and the hands. Not recoil. I know people who flinch with a .22.


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 592
I'm reloading a 1300 fps 7/8, #8, for $4.50. Not a huge savings but it sure feels good when you smokeball practice targets under 20 yrds and get good breaks out to 40 which 75% of most courses targets are. If you miss using mod chokes at those ranges you know you aren't pointing the gun right.


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:48 pm 
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If you don't think everything is a trade off , you really know nothing about shotgunning.

The only valid idea is making the trade-off work for you.

It all about who puts the most /'s on the scorecard. How they get there is not just theory. If I can put a good number up , b/c I can shoot the last 4 stations w/out pain nor flinches , I WIN.

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:34 pm 
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bdog58 wrote:
Who uses 7/8's loads out of their 12? Aside from the obvious difference of 1/8-1/4 of pellets, hows it working? Differences?


When shells and components were scarce a few years back, I loaded a lot of 7/8's and even 3/4. End of day for me, the 7/8's patterned with an almost identical usable core to my 1oz, the main difference was at the fringe of the pattern -- it really wasn't even there with the 7/8's but fairly obvious with the 1oz. My conclusion was the "useable" patterns were about identical.

This prompted me to buy a few boxes of quality factory 7/8's and compare them to the same in 1oz -- at the time I used AA International (1325 fps) compared to the 1oz 1290's, both in 7-½'s. At the plate at 30 yards, there was maybe a 1" total extra pattern diameter "advantage" to the 1oz loads depending on how I measured. I shot the same local course (that never changes targets) a couple different times with each, and didn't really come away with any significant conclusion about which was superior. In my case, any recoil difference was unnoticeable by me, so I opted to stick with 1oz simply due to the extra payload. Oh, and I stopped loading 7/8's for my practice loads simply because I wanted to practice with as close to what I competed with as possible.

Hope this helps,

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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5064
The only reason I ever shot 7/8ths 12 gauge was strictly to save money on shot when reloading. And I never shot 7/8ths in Sporting competition when the other folks were shooting 1 1/8 ounce factory shells.


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 Post subject: Re: Virtues of using 7/8's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:48 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 71
I have always shoot a 1oz remington 1350 at fitasc competitions and been useing the fiocchi
7/8 s for practice, and at this years GA state I shot the 7/8 at 90% of the shots and found out that the remington saved my a$$ on a few shots but also made me flinch on a few shots so I think it was the same results in the end.
I bought some 7/8 in the gamebore and want to compare them to the fiocchi shells but they are about 3.00 a box more I may have to stay with those because the remingtons and the fiocchi are getting harder to find.
but I have plenty left in stock.




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