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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:27 am 
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I too have settled on 1oz 1250 for myself -- I never feel I've missed because of 1/8oz of shot. However, I have done some back-yard experimentation, and for me, I do feel I break an extra target or two with 1 oz over 7/8, and another couple more compared to 3/4 oz. YMMV.

And here's to hoping we all actually live long enough to die from recoil ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:38 am 
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sera wrote:
we all gotta die from sumptin.

I choose recoil.


My lifestyle determines my deathstyle!


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:24 pm 
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I have settled on the cheapest damn shell I can find.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Bingo!

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:08 pm 
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smokeball wrote:
Its a physics drill. You can reduce your payload which reduces recoil but also useful range. If we are shooting long birds, and you have 3/4 ounce and I have 1 1/8, guess who is going to win? Every 1 1/8 ounce shell has 3/4 ounce riding in the front of the shot column.

As for health, I wonder if shooting a million shot shells in a lifetime has any physical effect on our brains. Like football players or boxers, does repeated recoil over a long period of time do damage? Possibly on a microscopic level. The double rifle guys are fo sure brain damaged, but they start out that way :P


I’m not sure I understand this concept. Once the payload is out of the barrel are they not individual pellets? If they start to spread out how does one pellet help another fly farther down range? I get that there are less of them in number but I done see how the can act as a team for a lack of a better word.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:13 pm 
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The pellets in the back draft on the ones in front. Like a race car. Choke changes how long they draft. Same for less pellets.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:08 pm 
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My girlfriend shoots 7/8 1200 fps commercial shells, usually federal top guns. I think Rio has a similar shell and even a commercial 3/4 oz 12 ga shell at higher velocity. So it's available if one wants it. Her a400 weighs about 8.25 lbs and when I shot 7/8 oz 1200 I was amazed at the lack of perceived recoil. It messed with my timing at first. I still like my 9lb o/u but I could see the day I switch to a S/A.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:33 pm 
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marist89 wrote:
I have settled on the cheapest damn shell I can find.

Yep. Those $4 a box Federals I bought at Sams Club a few months ago sure have busted a lot of clays. I should have bought 20 flats instead of 10. But then again what do I know I don't shoot registered clays I just shoot because I enjoy it. Charity events,Hunter class at a registered shoot with my friends, Sunday morning at the local sporting clays by myself or with some friends. Heck I even shot some 1 1/4 ounce high brass #6 at some hand thrown clays in my buddies back yard just to see if I could hit with them and yes I could. I've shot 300 clays in one day using 1 1/8 #8 through a Cynergy CX and my shoulder didn't bother me. Guess I just don't know any better and I'm 58 with bad rotator cuffs in both shoulders.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:13 am 
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Thanks for the replies folks .
I would like to make it clear that I am not advocating 3/4 oz for everything, just highlighting that recoil is an issue . I do advocate 7/8 oz for everything though , because it is already in place for International disciplines and it will break targets . We don't shoot any targets that have more difficult angles or higher speeds than Olympic Trap.
As for those died in the wool 1 & 1/8 oz advocates , carry on, but you obviously only shoot in your own backyard.
To answer Roger Gascoigne question , I scored very similar to what I normally do at that club if using 1oz.
My very good friend AJ Smith moaned when we had to move to 1 oz , but he quickly adapted.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:03 am 
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I think if a person can shoot 1 1/8oz then good for them. Recoil is just not an issue for them.

Recoil is a very real problem for some of us. I’m at the point where it may have me out of the game. 7/8 12fps is the heaviest shell I can barely hand. I often reload 3/4 oz and shoot those.

I understand that it takes me out competitively but I’m at the point where I’m happy to be able to shoot at all. And that is questionable.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:39 am 
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Rule that applies to any shooting competition is the gun/load combination with the lowest recoil and adequate ballistics on target will produce the highest scores.

Rub is “adequate ballistics on target” no doubt some targets need heavy loads, most don’t and many competitions allow switching ammunition when required. If you believe heavy loads are needed carry some. Shoot lighter cartridges most sporting clays presentations your scores will be higher.

My choice 7/8 for one gun with tight fixed chokes. 1 oz for another that normally carries IC - Mod. Screw chokes. All at about 1150 FPS. Pulled some of my heavy Crow loads out once last year. Your guns may need something else.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:47 am 
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So the way to get this concept moving is to hold "limited payload" shoots. These are shoots where the program specifies that no cartridges with more than 7/8 ounce of shot may be used. Shoot management could choose to have a supply of 7/8 ounce cartridges on hand, or you could bring your own, and the targets could be set accordingly. There is no NSCA rule against holding this kind of shoot, and it would promote the concept and be fun and interesting. Many shooters who would never shoot "limited payload" would do it to participate in shoots held in that format.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:57 am 
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smokeball wrote:
So the way to get this concept moving is to hold "limited payload" shoots. These are shoots where the program specifies that no cartridges with more than 7/8 ounce of shot may be used. Shoot management could choose to have a supply of 7/8 ounce cartridges on hand, or you could bring your own, and the targets could be set accordingly. There is no NSCA rule against holding this kind of shoot, and it would promote the concept and be fun and interesting. Many shooters who would never shoot "limited payload" would do it to participate in shoots held in that format.

They already exist, they're called sub-gauge shoots. You can find them in the standard sporting discipline, 5-stands, and at larger shoots sometimes there are limited payload FITASC events.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:31 am 
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But you need to spend lots of money on ephemeral gear and hard to find ammo, which is why nobody shoots sub-gauge. Going to "limited payload" only requires different shells.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:03 am 
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I’m not sure a rule is in order. And I don’t think we’re damaging our health. Just like anything else compromised health or age gets in the way of enjoying the things we like to do.
Circle of life.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:15 am 
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It's not an NSCA rule, its just a condition for individual tournaments. The idea is to get people who have never tried 7/8 ounce (the standard Bunker and International skeet payload) to try it on an even playing field, so there is no disadvantage to shooting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:17 am 
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smokeball wrote:
So the way to get this concept moving is to hold "limited payload" shoots. These are shoots where the program specifies that no cartridges with more than 7/8 ounce of shot may be used. Shoot management could choose to have a supply of 7/8 ounce cartridges on hand, or you could bring your own, and the targets could be set accordingly. There is no NSCA rule against holding this kind of shoot, and it would promote the concept and be fun and interesting. Many shooters who would never shoot "limited payload" would do it to participate in shoots held in that format.



Putting a limit of 7/8oz on shooters will keep them from showing up.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:11 am 
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ShowMe wrote:
salopian wrote:
DO WE REALLY NEED MORE THAN 3/4 OZ CARTRIDGES?


Are you competing at the level where you can win or loose by one bird?

Is winning important you to you?

If the answer to those questions is yes and yes, then shoot all the lead the rules allow.


If the answer to either of those questions is no,

and you are shooting for fun, and less recoil makes it more fun, then shoot ammo with less recoil.


Last edited by ShowMe on Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:32 am 
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KRIEGHOFFK80 wrote:
smokeball wrote:
So the way to get this concept moving is to hold "limited payload" shoots. These are shoots where the program specifies that no cartridges with more than 7/8 ounce of shot may be used. Shoot management could choose to have a supply of 7/8 ounce cartridges on hand, or you could bring your own, and the targets could be set accordingly. There is no NSCA rule against holding this kind of shoot, and it would promote the concept and be fun and interesting. Many shooters who would never shoot "limited payload" would do it to participate in shoots held in that format.



Putting a limit of 7/8oz on shooters will keep them from showing up.


I agree, only because those shells are so hard to find and when I do they are pretty pricey. if it was limited to 1 oz, I doubt you would see an increase or decrease in participation.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:08 am 
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Peter

I will shoot 3/4 load this weekend and report back

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