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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:16 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
Posts: 1635
Location: Northeast Ohio
dcblvsh2 wrote:
I’m not sure a rule is in order. And I don’t think we’re damaging our health. Just like anything else compromised health or age gets in the way of enjoying the things we like to do.
Circle of life.


Amen.

Being healthy (and wealthy...which is totally, individually, subjective) enough to participate in this enjoyable recreational activity is surely a blessing to be enjoyed. Each of our own physical limitations and personal preferences...even if they change as we age or each develop different health status', determine how heavy or light a load we enjoy; as well as many other variables that make up the elements of the game.

Fun or registered; backyard or posh club; K-80 or Mossberg; it's a wonderful recreation to be relished as long as we can...and to be kept in perspective. I don't golf, motorcycle, boat, sail, knit or garden...but I sure am thankful I am able to shoot clays (and even skeet!). Don't ask me about trap!




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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:21 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 5707
If you are looking to reduce recoil, pay attention to the speed.

Ft/lbs of recoil on left -

18.8 - 1 1/8, 1150
19.0 - 1 oz, 1290
17.9 - 1 oz, 1250
16.7 - 1 oz, 1200
15.5 - 1 oz, 1150
17.6 - 7/8 oz, 1400
13.5- 7/8 oz, 1200


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:54 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 676
That chart reflects what my shoulder feels. About exactly

Bass


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:35 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:33 pm
Posts: 114
I finally caught on after years of shooting AA 1250 1.125. A buddy of mine who patterns extensively had proof that at 50 yds the lighter loads patterned far better then my AA's.

His go to load is one oz 7.5's @ 1150fps. My breaks were better because there were more pellets on the target with this load. A tough transition but I'm a believer. No noticeable difference in leads that I can see.

The shells are Clever Classica.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:32 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:32 pm
Posts: 76
To me, the title of the OP is far more interesting than the side-bar technical / ballistic discussion(s) in some of the responses.

Can recoil contribute to one's health over time? The answer is probably a definite "perhaps". It probably depends on one's overall health, physiology, personal stamina and strength. And recoil might not be the only factor. We know that frequent and repetitive motion by the same part(s) of the body over long periods of time lead to what is called "continuous trama".

My shoulders and lower back are shot due to years of sports, weight training, climbing, rappelling, and fast-roping. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries and one back surgery. It happens all the time to athletes. So why wouldn't a long time shooter develop "continuous trama" to his neck, shoulders, elbows and wrists over time? Throw in recoil, and I'll bet it is a pretty common recipe for injury for many of us.

Surprisingly, to me, I am not bothered by felt recoil. I regularly shoot a 300 Weatherby, a 375H&H, and other big bore rifles, many of which produce a recoil value of well over 25lbs. My clays guns are a K80 and a K20, and I shoot big-box, cheap ammo that generally runs at least 7/8oz in 20 and 1 1/8 in 12. So far, at age 68, I'm able to deal with it all. But am I hurting myself? Probably. My intuition tells me I am. Shooting guns with high recoil is not a natural thing to do, and I do it a lot.

I think a progressive series of MRIs on a group of longtime shooters would be really interesting. In some cases, it might even be frightening.

As shooters we can make sure our gun mount and center of balance are good and that we have solid cheek weld and grip. The other things we can do is stay fit, work on flexibility and eat the kinds of foods that keep our bones strong. We'll know when we've had enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:37 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 5707
lcbo wrote:
A buddy of mine who patterns extensively had proof that at 50 yds the lighter loads patterned far better then my AA's.


I'd like to know more about that proof.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:45 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5859
Michael McIntosh and Bryan Bilinski did some testing with similar results I believe.....


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:32 pm 
Limited Edition
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Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:21 am
Posts: 367
smokeball wrote:
So the way to get this concept moving is to hold "limited payload" shoots. These are shoots where the program specifies that no cartridges with more than 7/8 ounce of shot may be used. Shoot management could choose to have a supply of 7/8 ounce cartridges on hand, or you could bring your own, and the targets could be set accordingly. There is no NSCA rule against holding this kind of shoot, and it would promote the concept and be fun and interesting. Many shooters who would never shoot "limited payload" would do it to participate in shoots held in that format.


Am a big fan of 24 gm loads. I think an event like that would be good. Maybe even doing a "24 gram Class" in addition to whatever classes currently exist?


Last edited by GoldGuy on Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:38 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:34 pm
Posts: 167
http://www.claytargetnation-digital.com ... =undefined

I know this is more directed at shot size, but it also concerns payload as it discussed 20 and 28 loads as well.

Less shoot means less performance at distance simply do to pattern density.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:38 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:34 pm
Posts: 167
http://www.claytargetnation-digital.com ... =undefined

I know this is more directed at shot size, but it also concerns payload as it discussed 20 and 28 loads as well.

Less shoot means less performance at distance simply do to pattern density.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:38 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:34 pm
Posts: 167
http://www.claytargetnation-digital.com ... =undefined

I know this is more directed at shot size, but it also concerns payload as it discussed 20 and 28 loads as well.

Less shoot means less performance at distance, simply do to pattern density.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:40 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:33 am
Posts: 2291
R10D wrote:
To me, the title of the OP is far more interesting than the side-bar technical / ballistic discussion(s) in some of the responses.

Can recoil contribute to one's health over time? The answer is probably a definite "perhaps". It probably depends on one's overall health, physiology, personal stamina and strength. And recoil might not be the only factor. We know that frequent and repetitive motion by the same part(s) of the body over long periods of time lead to what is called "continuous trama".

My shoulders and lower back are shot due to years of sports, weight training, climbing, rappelling, and fast-roping. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries and one back surgery. It happens all the time to athletes. So why wouldn't a long time shooter develop "continuous trama" to his neck, shoulders, elbows and wrists over time? Throw in recoil, and I'll bet it is a pretty common recipe for injury for many of us.

Surprisingly, to me, I am not bothered by felt recoil. I regularly shoot a 300 Weatherby, a 375H&H, and other big bore rifles, many of which produce a recoil value of well over 25lbs. My clays guns are a K80 and a K20, and I shoot big-box, cheap ammo that generally runs at least 7/8oz in 20 and 1 1/8 in 12. So far, at age 68, I'm able to deal with it all. But am I hurting myself? Probably. My intuition tells me I am. Shooting guns with high recoil is not a natural thing to do, and I do it a lot.

I think a progressive series of MRIs on a group of longtime shooters would be really interesting. In some cases, it might even be frightening.

As shooters we can make sure our gun mount and center of balance are good and that we have solid cheek weld and grip. The other things we can do is stay fit, work on flexibility and eat the kinds of foods that keep our bones strong. We'll know when we've had enough.



Old time trap shooters would be the ideal subjects for an MRI study. Many of them have 500,000 plus registered 12 ga. only. They beat themselves to the point where they can't even set a release trigger. That ought to be enough to see something if it is there.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:28 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 8328
Location: Upstate SC
If one could tell the difference between 1oz loads and lighter in a 9 pound plus K gun I’d be shocked given the same speed.

1 Oz loads at 1200 FPS or so are very light recoiling loads in a 9 pound gun.

I’m not sure I understand the premise as it relates to Sporting Clays. Most of us shoot 1 Oz or 1 1/8 Oz at a reasonable speed.

And yes, there’s a reason that Trap shooters who shoot heavy fast “handicap” loads over many years have problems.

If anything should be a “standard” load for SC it would be 1 Oz.


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 7:55 pm
Posts: 3894
Location: Erie, PA
VTHokiesDuckHunter wrote:
If anything should be a “standard” load for SC it would be 1 Oz.



Hardly, you cannot walk into any store in erie pa (or any other city) and find any decent quantity of 1 oz. shells.

1 1/8 no problem.

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FORUMS are for ENTERTAINMENT ONLY. They don't teach shooting!

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:42 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 5707
What's wrong with this picture?

Fred - One ounce loads are better that 1 1/8 ounce loads.

Fred - NSSA should make one ounce loads standard?

Why? If Fred really believes one ounce loads are better, why does his care if some choose to shoot the inferior 1 1/8 ounce loads?


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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:53 pm 
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And why are One ounce loads are better that 1 1/8 ounce loads.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:26 pm
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Location: So Cal USA
KRIEGHOFFK80 wrote:
And why are One ounce loads are better that 1 1/8 ounce loads.

Why are amps that go to 11, better than ones that go to 10?

They just are.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:48 pm
Posts: 1947
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
KRIEGHOFFK80 wrote:
I just started using eXperiencia 1oz. 8.5's 1240 in FITASC.


I looked them up, price wise I can shoot Fiocchi little Rinos for $68 local pickup. I would try some of these other shells out there, but they don't offer me a savings or performance over what I shoot. The Bornaghis are a good shell, and when Able Ammo was selling them for $60 a flat with dirt cheap shipping they were hard to beat. The other problem I find with Able is that they never have much of a stock for all they advertise a certain brand.

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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Bornaghis are a great shell but there is no way I am paying $23.50 to ship me 1 case of shells.

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Gun and Shell Sponsor / My Wife
Polaris Ranger
Krieghoff K80 Plantation Grade
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Brain Chokes
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 Post subject: Re: Could we be damaging our health with excessive recoil?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2678
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Eriehunter wrote:
VTHokiesDuckHunter wrote:
If anything should be a “standard” load for SC it would be 1 Oz.



Hardly, you cannot walk into any store in erie pa (or any other city) and find any decent quantity of 1 oz. shells.

1 1/8 no problem.


That's why I still reload my ammo. One ounce 12 gauge loads? No problem! 7/8 ounce 12 gauge loads? Certainly! 3/4 ounce loads in a 12 gauge? No problem! Split the difference between 7/8 ounce and 1 ounce? Certainly!



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