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 Post subject: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of price?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:49 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2337
I have been reading about the type of binding I can use. From what I have read the hard cover is the most expensive of all bindings but is supposed to be the best and will last for 50 plus years.

The glued wrap around is not quite and expensive and will last longer than a spiral type binding. There are several others but but just from the look of them, I don't think I would be interested in the others. I know that we are going to use quality paper.

Before I will choose the binding I guess I need to ask wast type of price would you expect for the hard back binding, the glued wrap around binding and the spiral binding? As I mentioned, I do want to make some money on this book but I also want to be fair to the people who buy my it. I guess I should have looked at all of these things before I started this Project.

I have been compiling the information for this book for many years and in the last six months I really have started to put it all together. I have never done this before and now I am learning fast. LOL I have enjoyed this project but it does take a lot of time. Every time I think I am close to finishing (I am still maybe a month away being finished.) I find that I need to do something else. The editing and formatting is not cheap but Jeff is working with me on this and I really appreciate it. I don't know what the printing cost will be. If any of you have a suggestion of a good printing company, please let me know.

Thanks again for all of your comments and suggestions,

Mike McAlpine

As with every thing I do, I always try to do my best. I don't believe is doing things half a$$!!!!!!!!




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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:05 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
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I would say $39.95 hard binding, 35.95 glue wrap around, 29.95 spiral bound.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:19 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:02 pm
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Got to make it electronic.... Kindle!

JML

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:37 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:40 am
Posts: 244
Location: Houston, TX and Fairfield Glade, TN
As my eyes age, I rarely buy any book that isn't available in the Kindle Format.

I can make the print larger; I can change the back-ground to Black, with White print, and most Kindle books are priced around $10.00, like a Costco wine. If I choose to buy it, it is on my Chromebook ( or ANY other computer with the free Kindle app) in minutes.

I can download a small sample (try it before you buy it). My wife has me download a Sample Book about once a week. She buys 90% of the ones she sample-reads.

I know little about shotgunning, but I do know how many dollars we spend on books, and how I (and she) like to read them. The books travel with us on our computers and take up no space.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
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richg99 wrote:
As my eyes age, I rarely buy any book that isn't available in the Kindle Format.

I can make the print larger; I can change the back-ground to Black, with White print, and most Kindle books are priced around $10.00, like a Costco wine. If I choose to buy it, it is on my Chromebook ( or ANY other computer with the free Kindle app) in minutes.

I can download a small sample (try it before you buy it). My wife has me download a Sample Book about once a week. She buys 90% of the ones she sample-reads.

I know little about shotgunning, but I do know how many dollars we spend on books, and how I (and she) like to read them. The books travel with us on our computers and take up no space.

While I am also a fan of e-books and read Kindle books on my Fire exclusively when reading for relaxation and entertainment, I prefer to have technical books in hard copy. I don’t feel that browsing a book goes as smoothly with e-books and neither does searching the contents both of which are important when using technical books like Mike is writing. Also diagrams are not as effective in e-book as in hard copy ones. Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:58 am 
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Gotta go along with a Kindle version :) But I'd say maybe 15/20% over your costs. But it's your baby and you've put years and years into it so you deserve to add some jingle to your pockets, just don't go crazy LOL-LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:00 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:27 pm
Posts: 300
Location: Kentucky
To be clear: I am not going to buy the book. Nothing personal, a book on target setting is of little value to me.

However, if it were, and Mike is has the expertise and experience it seems .. then price would matter little.

My point is that the market is probably small and those in the market would probably pay the asking price. $39.95 is, IMO, looooowwwwwww.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:48 pm 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2337
Guys,

This is s specialty book and has a lot of information in it. I am not sure I can sell one even for $39.95. My cost are great and as Denver pointed out many people who don't set targets will not buy it so my market is small and the amount I will receive may not make it possible to print. I will just wait and see how much my expenses will be. I remember that a few of the big name coaches wrote a lot of books and charged that $39.95 figure. That was maybe 20 years ago. I wonder how much inflation has gone up? I had planed to do a video with this book that would follow the chapters but I am not sure I will do one now.

Mike McAlpine

Thanks for your thoughts {hs# I really do appreciate your frankness and this doesn't mean that I won't publish the book. I will have to figure the total expenses. I should have thought about asking these questions before I started on this. I am sure that there is no way to use the hard cover and will have to look at a cheaper paper and the glued warp around Cover. Maybe I can keep the price down by doing some of these things. but I wouldn't like two.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:02 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Posts: 278
Maybe I was hasty. Perhaps $59.95 would work. But I don’t see it as a technical textbook or monograph type of thing that probably goes these days for $125.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:51 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:31 pm
Posts: 361
Location: The Treasure Coast
Mike, I think you answered your own question. It's not what people WANT to pay it's what you NEED them to pay to cover the costs. I'm sure there are hidden/ unknown costs you haven't even figured in yet. Just an observation. Good luck with it, Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:11 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:54 pm
Posts: 866
The costs of editing/formatting/layout and design are the essentially same regardless of format.

Where you will get nailed is in production costs, particularly if minimum runs are required. If you overestimate demand, you will be sitting on crates and crates of books, each of which will represent at least $18-$20 of your own money.

Probably the most cost-effective approaches are ebooks and print-on-demand. Print on demand doesn't give you as good of a margin as a pre-printed "run" of books, but it prevents you from keeping thousands of dollars tied up in inventory.

In your situation, where the true size of your potential audience is a big unknown, I would either do an ebook or print on demand.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:44 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:40 pm
Posts: 115
Mike McAlpine wrote:
Guys,

This is s specialty book and has a lot of information in it. I am not sure I can sell one even for $39.95. My cost are great and as Denver pointed out many people who don't set targets will not buy it so my market is small and the amount I will receive may not make it possible to print. I will just wait and see how much my expenses will be. I remember that a few of the big name coaches wrote a lot of books and charged that $39.95 figure. That was maybe 20 years ago. I wonder how much inflation has gone up? I had planed to do a video with this book that would follow the chapters but I am not sure I will do one now.

Mike McAlpine

Thanks for your thoughts {hs# I really do appreciate your frankness and this doesn't mean that I won't publish the book. I will have to figure the total expenses. I should have thought about asking these questions before I started on this. I am sure that there is no way to use the hard cover and will have to look at a cheaper paper and the glued warp around Cover. Maybe I can keep the price down by doing some of these things. but I wouldn't like two.


The market doesn't pay what you need to earn to make the book a profitable endeavor. The market pays what the market pays based on supply and demand.

I'd forget what people will buy it with a certain binding and sell it based on how it compares to the various target setting schools out there, understanding that a book cannot cover in depth what can be taught in person, via kindle or similar. Then add the cost on top for a bound book if that what's a person choses.

There are many ways to self-publish. I'd exhaust that search first.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
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Sorry Mike, but you are paying a publisher/editor for this exact stuff............whay are you doing their job for them?
Good luck with this!

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:17 pm 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2337
zxvc, and all others

As far as I know, I am the only one who does target setting schools. The NSCA use to do them and they used my manual. I guess they found, as I did, that there was not a big market in this venture. They don't do these anymore and I still do a few. Many target setters are a funny bunch be cause they think after setting a few courses they have mastered course setting. All, I can say is I have been setting target for 34 years and I still learn new things about setting courses all of the time. I wish I had had a book like this when I first started (1986) setting targets. I have learned by trial and error and from other long time setters.

I imagine what I will have to do is charge what production prices dictate what I must charge. I think when you see the finished product, you will understand my dilemma. As far as what price to charge. This is not some book on shooting with cheap paper made in China It is a quality specialty book. I want to be fair but I don't want to have to price it so cheap that I will lose my money; or this is what I had hoped.

If I wast still able to make a good living, I wouldn't care so much about the price. This is not only a how to book for target setters but also a great book for shooters who want to learn the tricks of the trade and figure out what a target setter is doing to them. One way or the other this book WILL COME OUT in the next few months. By ordering enough books in a run, I will be able to cut down the cost of each book. I sure don't want crates of books that I have to tie up a lot of my money in and that are put into storage and sell a few book each year. I will do my best to keep prices as low as I can but like I said, I am not made of money. LOL

Please try to understand my concern. I had hoped that this book would stand the test of time and influence and help the next generation of target setters. I have never claimed to be the best target setter in the country; only that I was more experienced than most because of the many years in setting targets and all of the tournaments, large and small that I have set.

Mike McAlpine

I always appreciate your comments. I wouldn't have asked these important questions because I knew that there would be some people who would not agree with my thoughts. There is nothing wrong with saying what you think. At least this is my way of thinking. When someone needs real opinions, the best way is to ask hard questions. I take NO OFFENCE to any replies that differ from my ideas. In fact these kinds of replies help me to make decisions. I want to thank you fort your honest input. {hs#

The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci. I borrowed this saying from oneounce.

I forgot to mention this but my editor is not the publisher. I will have to find one that will try to meet my needs at a fair price. This is the reason for my questions. {hs#

I know, too long of a post. Sorry!


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:20 am 
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Not too long my friend :) Just being honest about something that you're passionate about and love doing :) And not a thing wrong with that :) Take care

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:29 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 676
Mike I have a large gun book library. Still buying too All in the specific disciplines I am interested in . Recently selling some On eBay & through forums to make shelf room.

Surprises me how how much some bring & how little others sell for. And have bought gems cheap, paid high prices for others.

Buyers looking for good content never ask how the books are bound & I don’t pay any attention to binding when buying. General collectors may select on bindings, some have library’s of nice bindings with no focus on subject or quality content.

My advise bind secure not fancy, interested buyers don't care.

On electronic. Recently paid 120 bucks for a very good technical Ebook book on My engine lathe. Came in a strange format Zip drive. Only way the author could publish is electronic, print cost too much.Detail not available anywhere else. Glad to get it.

It won’t run on my Apple laptop or iPad. Have to use the desktop windows machine. Can’t carry the computer down to the shop and lay it open when taking the gear box apart. Plus USB sizes are changing no telling if some future machine will run it. Have a VHS tape on lathe work that’s useless with no VHS machine.

Tough choice, My advise make it user friendly & affordable and most important profitable. Might be surprised how many will sell.

Bass


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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:36 am 
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Mike, this is all your experience and life’s work wrapped up in one package. Your legacy so to speak. I certainly hope you get a lot more the $39.95 for it. I agree with an electronic version but I’m hoping for a nicely bound version for my book collection. I was thinking more like $75. Especially if you’d autograph it. Maybe more.
Good luck my friend. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:46 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Mike,

Something to bear in mind, Cathy and I printed our books, then we put them on Kindle, and got a first rush of sales BUT there is still income coming in from 10 year old books on Kindle as these are still relevant to a lot of people. They are technical material

Don't fix a price to recover cost in the short term.

Roger

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:03 am 
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I agree with Roger. I think it’s more about the information inside than just recovering your costs. You’ve been accumulating costs since you started in this business.

At least I think that’s what Roger is saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Question? Mike McAlpine's Book - What Kind of pr
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:40 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Exactly.

plus by letting Amazon/Kindle handle the sales and distribution worldwide you save your self a whole load of work

I remember the hassle that was, it made us go to Kindle.

Last month I had a sale in Australia, I did nothing Kindle just sent the money to may bank

We had shot all over the world when we worked abroad and run a successful Gun Club here so we made them international



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Phone 813-907-7340
Check out our E-books on Amazon here
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