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 Post subject: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 94
I wish the NSCA would mandate maximum squad sizes. 5 would be my ideal, but no more than 6.

We got held up by an 8 man squad this weekend and I am just flabbergasted that a group would be that inconsiderate during a registered event. It was raining during the event, so we got drenched while waiting for 8 people to finish at each station. It really sucked!

I will probably walk off the course the next time this happens and request a refund. I wont expect a refund, but I think the point will be made.

Shooting sporting clays is what I do for normalcy in this crazy year. Nothing is more irritating than people turning sporting clays into the same 2020 sh*t show.

Sorry for my rant. But I stand by the belief that a maximum squad size rule would protect our sport from people that lack consideration for others.



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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:52 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:14 pm
Posts: 8
Sounds like you should have just skipped ahead of them. Nobody is squadding an 8 man group, so it was a Euro rotation which means you can shoot the stations in any order that you please.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 pm 
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I think that a maximum of 5 in a squad would be best. However, I have to ask why you didn't just go around them and then come back and shoot the station you skipped?

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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:59 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 94
TruePairLover wrote:
Sounds like you should have just skipped ahead of them. Nobody is squadding an 8 man group, so it was a Euro rotation which means you can shoot the stations in any order that you please.


It was a 50 bird course that was not conducive to skipping and going back. Furthermore, it would have been inconsiderate to someone behind us when we would have to go back and cut in front to finish.

The problem was not in our behavior, but the 8 man squad. I will reiterate, the NSCA should mandate a maximum squad size at registered events. 8 is too much!

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NSCA #: 549500

Make Sporting Clays Great Again - MANDATORY DOWNCLASSING!

Primary Gun-K80 w/factory titanium chokes
Backup Gun-Browning BPS
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Ammo-Whatever is On Sale at 1200fps or less
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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:44 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1327
i dislike shoots with euro starts. seems like that is the real problem there.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:48 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:14 pm
Posts: 8
Hwcn wrote:
TruePairLover wrote:
Sounds like you should have just skipped ahead of them. Nobody is squadding an 8 man group, so it was a Euro rotation which means you can shoot the stations in any order that you please.


It was a 50 bird course that was not conducive to skipping and going back. Furthermore, it would have been inconsiderate to someone behind us when we would have to go back and cut in front to finish.

The problem was not in our behavior, but the 8 man squad. I will reiterate, the NSCA should mandate a maximum squad size at registered events. 8 is too much!

You wouldn’t cut in front of anybody, you would simply be waiting on a smaller squad to finish up.

Btw, NSCA already has it in their rule book that squads shall consist of 2-6 shooters for Euro rotations.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22701
Personally, I prefer 4 man squads; but as the others have stated, you should have simply skipped ahead and then come back around; much simpler than waiting in the rain for a slow squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:22 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
I golfed for years before I took up shooting where a foursome is the max. I was amazed that 5 and 6 man squads were the norm. It leads to a lot of waiting. Shooting at my local fun course last weekend we had to wait behind a tensome (if that is even a word).

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:51 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:13 am
Posts: 22
Hwcn,

it was a mess all around. The squad size wasn't intentional or planned... it was the result of the sign-up window. Sorry to hear you got soaked, I did to.

8 is to many, but the real problem that happened this weekend was that large squad in front of you got to station 2 and had to wait for the machine to be adjusted because the bird was hitting the tree (10 minutes to get course worker to come, adjust, then come out from behind the woods). Then go to station 3 to find a rabbit machine with a dead battery (another 5 minutes of standing and waiting). Then get to station 6 and had to wait for the squad on station 7 to finish shooting due to safety concerns, then shot station 6 (which compiles back through the groups behind as well)


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:10 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1327
How does a squad work in a euro start? I thought Euro was every man for himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:17 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22701
Not necessarily; if you show up with a group of friends that shoot together, you all go shoot together wherever you wanted to start. Many times, when shooting with friends, we come on a larger group at a station, we will skip ahead - but we skip ahead TWO stations so as not to hold up that large group now coming up behind us. We then simply go back around to make up the stations we skipped.

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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:28 am 
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That is the clubs fault. They need to go out and check everything before the shoot starts.

When a target is hitting a tree it will not change. If the target is hitting the tree either move the trap or cut the tree down.

All of this should have been done the day before.

A club should never let 8 people shoot together. Ever!

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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:09 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5594
This is what happens when the club collects money, hands out scorecards and doesn't care what happens on the course. Most likely SYO. Go to real shoots that are squadded with refs.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:29 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:18 pm
Posts: 532
Yea, 8 is way to much. One would hope that, one wouldn't have to rely on the club to ensure that didn't happen. But rely on some common sense from the shooters themselves. Ok, they're a group that wants to shoot....be around each other. This is 50 targets. Like....2 squads of 4 wouldn't have sufficed?

Euros are frustating to me at times, especially when its on a course that has stations on both sides of the trail. Some folks just have to the ones that instead of following the flow, they jump back and forth across the road. Again, common sense.

Course not properly set, machines not working, lotta rain I'm sure made the squad of 8 a larger issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:49 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Hwcn wrote:
TruePairLover wrote:
Sounds like you should have just skipped ahead of them. Nobody is squadding an 8 man group, so it was a Euro rotation which means you can shoot the stations in any order that you please.


It was a 50 bird course that was not conducive to skipping and going back. Furthermore, it would have been inconsiderate to someone behind us when we would have to go back and cut in front to finish.

The problem was not in our behavior, but the 8 man squad. I will reiterate, the NSCA should mandate a maximum squad size at registered events. 8 is too much!


Perhaps the rule should be like golf on a social play course . . when a group falls behind the pace and has open holes ahead of them (in the case of this 8 person group open station or stations) they are asked by a course official to skip the open stations to get caught up. i.e. the problem group is the one that needs to take action and double back etc..


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:56 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:13 am
Posts: 22
This is an SYO, but NOT a true European Rotation. The club hosts a 100 bird registered event complied of 2- 50 bird courses about 4 or 5 times a year. its a VERY SMALL sportsmens club that runs a 50 bird all handset course with the use of trappers that move with the squad ( formed by the club at sign up ). The other side is all auto/ pull your own, which is the side in question on the thread however you can see the complexities of the issue. The club is going try to fill the squads to maximum compacity because 1.) they have limited trappers and 2.) more shooter per squad = more tips per trapper per times out.

Its basically a registered fun shoot, class sizes below Master rarely pay 2 punches to the winner, winnings are usually 10-15 bucks. There where bigger and better shoots to be shot within 2-3 hours drives but those that choose to shoot this shoot likely did because the proximity/cost/weather forecast. This club also allows hunter class (shoots simply for lewis money) and walk-in shooters that simply want to pay for the targets....this group probably makes up close to 50% of the shootership on days they host there registered shoots. Its full of less then perfect scenarios, but its close and its cheap..... if your gonna appreciate it your gonna have to appreciate it with its flaws for what it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22701
lt0026 wrote:
This is what happens when the club collects money, hands out scorecards and doesn't care what happens on the course. Most likely SYO. Go to real shoots that are squadded with refs.


Not too many of those around. Those of us who like to shoot registered can handle it

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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:40 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5594
Those of us that want a fair and level playing field know where to find it. I prefer not to work for the club and have someone else throw the targets and keep score. I'll gladly pay the extra $15-20. The investment is minute compared to the other expenses in this game.


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:16 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:51 am
Posts: 1148
As of now, $65-75 for SYO registered. You start adding 10+, I'm going to cut half of registered shoots. The price is starting to eliminate registered shooting....


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 Post subject: Re: Squad Sizes-8 is too much!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:49 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5594
chips&clays wrote:
As of now, $65-75 for SYO registered. You start adding 10+, I'm going to cut half of registered shoots. The price is starting to eliminate registered shooting....

You can't put a price on anything if it isn't legit. $75.00 for SYO is a joke.
We just had a shooter put on 5 and a half year ban and another 5 and a half years of probation after the ban for cheating. Altering score cards. I can shoot the same 100 targets for $40.00 on Sunday.




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