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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:25 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1147
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
My Browning 12 ga Ultra Sporter Plus and my Miroku Mk 38 12 ga. are also both 8lb + shotguns too but then they're not on the lower profile/smaller 725 action. I don't own a 725 12 ga and so went off the Browning specs. I guess I'm not real recoil sensitive as I can't say I've noticed a significant difference between my 8 lb. 12 ga guns shooting 1 oz and my 725 20 ga. shooting 7/8 oz.




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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:20 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 713
I was loading minimum velocity 3/4 oz 20 G shells for my grandson to use in a 870 wingmaster with a youth stock . Light but pressure too low,unburned powder. He’s older now & retired the wingmaster.

Ended up with two “ standard “ 3/4 oz 20 G loads. One with Green Dot in GC hulls for my 391 sporting that has 8 oz in the buttstock stock 8 more with a Briley mag cap. 7 1/2 lbs total. It cycles best higher pressure.

Other 3/4 oz load in AA hulls using 20/28 for a 12 G Beretta 687 with fitted 20 G barrels 8 lbs & a Parker Trojan 6 lbs 8 oz. Both loads straight from Alliants on line load manual & perform well.

Other day round of Clays with my Son & Grandson all 3 20 G guns. 7 1/2 lb 391 Auto least recoil. 8 lb OU close 2nd. 6lb 8 oz Parker noticeably more recoil. No substitute for gun weight & the Gas Auto has the advantage even with 8 oz less gun weight. Like the Parker SxS but it’s harder to shoot a light gun & its not just the recoil.

I use 1 oz in that 687 with its 12 G barrels & 1 1/8 oz in a 391 field. Nice shooting loads more recoil than the 3/4 oz 20s. Keep some 7/8 oz 20g in my bag, with tight chokes they are effective on longer targets.

If you go 20 add weight to a Gas gun or fit 20 barrels on a 12 frame my advise

Bass


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:39 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 119
Wow, very pertinent information ! I would like to Thank Everyone who replied, & now I need to make a decision.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:33 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 713
One more thing on 7 1/2 lb 20 G autos & 8 lb OU 20 G. We shoot factory 7/8 loads in both mostly to obtain empties for 3/4 oz reloads & targets that need larger shot. Recoil modest either 3/4 or 7/8. I like 3/4 # 8 and tight chokes best. When going 7/8 oz 7 1/2 shot always.

Bass


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Posts: 2451
Gas gun is the optimal solution. Add weight to stock and magazine to desired level of recoil.

One ounce 12ga loads (1180fps) in 8lb gun are about a pound+ heavier that 20ga loads (1200fps) in a 7lb gun. So 20ga is lighter recoiling, but only on paper. Shooting 7/8 12ga loads in a 8lb gun is pretty soft - 12lb. Federal and RIO makes a 7/8oz 12ga loads.

Use to shoot a 20ga 725 Sporter. Nice gun. Nice trigger. Sold and bought a CG Summit 20ga. Nice gun. Nice trigger. More money is the down side..

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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:32 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 119
seb7515 wrote:
Gas gun is the optimal solution. Add weight to stock and magazine to desired level of recoil.

One ounce 12ga loads (1180fps) in 8lb gun are about a pound+ heavier that 20ga loads (1200fps) in a 7lb gun. So 20ga is lighter recoiling, but only on paper. Shooting 7/8 12ga loads in a 8lb gun is pretty soft - 12lb. Federal and RIO makes a 7/8oz 12ga loads.

Use to shoot a 20ga 725 Sporter. Nice gun. Nice trigger. Sold and bought a CG Summit 20ga. Nice gun. Nice trigger. More money is the down side..


I am questioning buying the 725 because I have been reading about tons of trigger problems. I might go with a Citori CXS, just deciding between 30" or 32" bbls.

Decisions decisions !


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:44 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
Posts: 2706
johnnie g wrote:
seb7515 wrote:
Gas gun is the optimal solution. Add weight to stock and magazine to desired level of recoil.

One ounce 12ga loads (1180fps) in 8lb gun are about a pound+ heavier that 20ga loads (1200fps) in a 7lb gun. So 20ga is lighter recoiling, but only on paper. Shooting 7/8 12ga loads in a 8lb gun is pretty soft - 12lb. Federal and RIO makes a 7/8oz 12ga loads.

Use to shoot a 20ga 725 Sporter. Nice gun. Nice trigger. Sold and bought a CG Summit 20ga. Nice gun. Nice trigger. More money is the down side..


I am questioning buying the 725 because I have been reading about tons of trigger problems. I might go with a Citori CXS, just deciding between 30" or 32" bbls.

Decisions decisions !


The CXS is a good choice, but there really aren’t very many trigger issues with the 725. Ours was very reliable.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:45 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:49 pm
Posts: 311
Something to consider. If you are buying new shells 20ga 7/8oz. are common in most big box stores in the $5-6. range. 12 ga 7/8oz when you can find them are generally more expensive and a mail order proposition with shipping charges additional. If you're loading none of this matters. That said 7-7.5lb. 20ga guns are pleasant to shoot, 6 lb. not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:09 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:01 pm
Posts: 6831
I see absolutely nothing wrong with buying a 20 gauge configured the way you want. And you can add weight to it if you need to. Sounds like a good idea to me. Lets you shoot factory loads.

I am old and cheap and reload. I shoot 7/8 in my 12 gauge mostly for sporting. I hung on to the 12 gauge because I shoot 1 oz for trap. The 12 gauge (8 lb, 2 oz) does not feel a lot softer than the 7/8 in my lighter in weight 20 gauge. I know it "should" but...? I think the 20 gauge in a 7lb to 8 lb gun will be worlds softer shooting than 1 1/8 in a 8lb to 9lb gun. And the lighter weight barrels will make it swing easier.

I think you will love your new rig.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:03 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Posts: 2698
PKW-Indiana wrote:
Here's another idea:

Buy an O/U 12 (Browning, etc) and then get a set of 20 ga tubes. Now you have both and when you add the tubes, you will increase the weight overall. You will be happy either way! :lol: :lol:

pk

That is what I did. You end up with a 9 lb gun. The recoil with 20ga shells is nil. I have a Browning 725 with Briley tubes.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:58 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:32 am
Posts: 636
Location: Eastern VA
IME, the best way to reduce FELT (vice calculated) recoil is the have a stock made that fits you. I was amazed at the difference a professionally fit stock made for me. That is an expensive and arduous proposition, tho. Otherwise, the way to reduce recoil is a function of using: a recoil absorbing action (auto), a heavier gun, lighter shot charges and reduced payload velocity. In a stock gun, I think a 7/8 ounce load in a 12 gauge gun will almost always shoot “softer” than a 20 gauge because of the difference in gun weight.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:01 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:53 pm
Posts: 237
Location: Sonoma, CA
My 12GA target gun is set up to shoot inexpensive low-recoil 20 GA shells. I always practice with 20GA and then shoot 12GA in competitions.

An over/under with 20 GA tubes (from Kolar or Briley) should work well. If cost is no object one could order a Kolar Max Lite Sporting with 20GA barrels. The 20 GA barrels for this 9 pound professional grade target gun are weight matched to their 12 GA barrels. Kolars swing much more easily than you would expect for the weight because the increase vs an average gun is primarily in the receiver. Basically a heavy action with long light barrels. Kreighoff and Perazzi are other high-end manufacturers that offer 20 GA barrels for their 12GA target guns.

Several of the world's best sporting clays shooters shoot autoloaders, so that is definitely a lower recoil option to consider. Beretta is the brand chosen by all or nearly all due to their overall performance, durability and reliability. By contrast, many double barrel brands are represented. You can get the best autoloader money can buy for under $2K, which is something to consider.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:37 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2394
Most of the replies are right but a 20 gauge gas gun does have less recoil and will break anything a 12 gauge with 1 / 1/4 ounce. Notice I said 1 1/4 ounce. This load will bust your shoulder and will not break a target our kill a bird anny better that a one ounce. I shoot pheasants with my 20 gauge and use 7/8 ounce. I don't like to carry a heavy gun in the field. I have shot them with one of my 28 gauge guns. I really don't see any difference. of course I shoot at reasonable distances.

On the other hand, my 12 gauge guns O/U's don't have excessive recoil. They are of course heaver. I shoot only 0ne 0unce ammo in my 12 gauge. In my job I have done a lot of testing with different, guns gauges and loads and I have found that I can come up with a combination that gives me reasonable recoil without sacrificing performance.

Mike McAlpine

I have shot a lot of shells in my life than most people. Remember, I used to be a fanatic when it came to shooting shotguns. I have a very goo idea as to how many shells I have shot in my life but I wouldn't dare mention it here because no one would believe me. LOL


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:09 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: Indiana
shotgunvette wrote:
........and the obvious answer is to shoot a semi auto 12 gauge like the Beretta A 400.


This ^^^. I just put my Perazzi up for sale and now shoot my Super X1 for sporting and FITASC.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:43 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 378
winmod21 wrote:
shotgunvette wrote:
........and the obvious answer is to shoot a semi auto 12 gauge like the Beretta A 400.


This ^^^. I just put my Perazzi up for sale and now shoot my Super X1 for sporting and FITASC.


Interesting. How is your X1 set up and what loads do you shoot ? The reason I ask is I shoot a Perazzi, but have an SX1 collecting dust. Have been thinking about giving it a serious go.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:33 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: Indiana
DKW1 wrote:
winmod21 wrote:
shotgunvette wrote:
........and the obvious answer is to shoot a semi auto 12 gauge like the Beretta A 400.


This ^^^. I just put my Perazzi up for sale and now shoot my Super X1 for sporting and FITASC.


Interesting. How is your X1 set up and what loads do you shoot ? The reason I ask is I shoot a Perazzi, but have an SX1 collecting dust. Have been thinking about giving it a serious go.


It’s a Trap model. Monte Carlo stock, 30” full choke, competition trigger by Stu Wright. I shoot 1 oz loads at 1200 or 1250 FPS. I carry a handful of spreaders for close ones and damn rabbits. Handles like the Perazzi without the recoil.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:57 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 378
winmod21 wrote:
DKW1 wrote:
winmod21 wrote:
shotgunvette wrote:
........and the obvious answer is to shoot a semi auto 12 gauge like the Beretta A 400.


This ^^^. I just put my Perazzi up for sale and now shoot my Super X1 for sporting and FITASC.


Interesting. How is your X1 set up and what loads do you shoot ? The reason I ask is I shoot a Perazzi, but have an SX1 collecting dust. Have been thinking about giving it a serious go.


It’s a Trap model. Monte Carlo stock, 30” full choke, competition trigger by Stu Wright. I shoot 1 oz loads at 1200 or 1250 FPS. I carry a handful of spreaders for close ones and damn rabbits. Handles like the Perazzi without the recoil.


Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Sporting shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:42 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:29 am
Posts: 1261
Location: Artesia, New Mexico
Looks like you got a lot of information. If you do want to pursue a 725 sporting 20 ga I have a really nice, barely used one listed in the classifieds.



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