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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
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Payload, fps, recoil energy (ft/lbs)

1 1/8 ounce, 1150 fps, 18.8 ft/lbs

1 ounce, 1290 fps, 19.0 ft/lbs.




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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:35 am 
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All the Bona fide 27 yard trapshooters shoot 1 1/8 ounce.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:58 am 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
All the Bona fide 27 yard trapshooters shoot 1 1/8 ounce.


Wow. And I thought this was the Sporting Clays Forum.

When my son was competing regularly in registered skeet, he made AAA in 12 gauge shooting 20 gauge #9s. That certainly doesn't make it the best load for sporting clays.

Your previous post comparing recoil for 1 ounce at 1290 fps to 1 1/8 ounce at 1150 fps is equally as irrelevant.

If you think the extra 1/8 ounce helps, shoot it. You can't prove it breaks any additional birds and lots of us believe the extra recoil costs you targets at the end of the day. Especially for old guys that don't think they are recoil sensitive.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:02 am
Posts: 98
From a purely scientific standpoint there are a few limited situations where if the shot is placed on the outside edge of the pattern and the distance is a little too long for the choosen choke then the extra 1/8th ounce payload could create a break that would not of occurred with the 1oz shell. This is a very very small subset of shots because even with the same shot placement often times the 1oz will get a chip anyways and sometimes the clay will go by without a break even with the 1 1/8th because the placement was off and/or the choke too loose to begin with.

Now from a human nature side of things the person that looses confidence with the lower payload but doesn't have recoil sensitivity is likely to break more targets with the 1 1/8 because they believe they will. On the other hand the person who is recoil sensitive will be the opposite because they will be concerned about the recoil. It really comes down to what shell is going to provide you with the ability to focus on the targets and not let your mind wonder to those other issues.


Last edited by Lacyb on Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:08 am 
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Location: Indiana
If a clay target could shoot back I’d want the 1-1/8 oz.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:17 am 
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winmod21 wrote:
If a clay target could shoot back I’d want the 1-1/8 oz.


"If worms had pistols, birds wouldn't eat them". Darrell Royal.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:00 pm 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
All the Bona fide 27 yard trapshooters shoot 1 1/8 ounce.


Those 27 yard trapshooters know a lot about shotgun ammo performance at long distances.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:17 pm 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
All the Bona fide 27 yard trapshooters shoot 1 1/8 ounce.


Those 27 yard trapshooters know a lot about shotgun ammo performance at long distances.


NHRA mechanics and engine builders know a lot about car engines, but what they know is of little importance to Formula 1 teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:38 pm 
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I have used 1 1/8 oz. loads @ 1200 FPS in my SA. I like them, but after 200 targets they definitely wear me down.

With 1 oz. loads @ 1250 FPS I can shoot 200 targets and I am still ready for another 200. It isn't much of a recoil reduction between the 2 loads but I feel much fresher with the 1 oz. loads.

Scores? I can't tell the difference, but when the event is important I use the 1 1/8 oz. loads.

Can't say I have ever been disappointed shooting either load.

I shoot a lot more of the 1 oz. loads......probably 15:1.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:26 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
when the event is important I use the 1 1/8 oz. loads....

I shoot a lot more of the 1 oz. loads......probably 15:1.


{hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:49 am 
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I feel more recoil from my 20 gauge O/U than I do with 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge ammo thru my automatic.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:02 am 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
I feel more recoil from my 20 gauge O/U than I do with 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge ammo thru my automatic.


That would be a common perception. As much as I enjoy 20 gauge targets, I do feel more recoil shooting 20 gauge guns than anything else I shoot...... Shooting 20 gauge loads thru my 12 gauge O/U with Briley side kicks is the most pleasant way I have shot that gauge.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:49 am
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Location: St. Louis, MO
If buying ammo, and 1oz loads cost the same as comparable 1-1/8 oz loads, then why not get the heavier load for the mental confidence? But since I reload, and the extra 1/8 oz of shot adds up over the shooting season, and I know that the lighter load will break any target I point the gun at properly, I usually load 1 oz to save the shot over the season, and for lighter recoil(getting old is not for wimps). And that is also why I often shoot 7/8 oz loads. But then I shoot for fun, not profit.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:07 pm 
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USAFA71 wrote:
If buying ammo, and 1oz loads cost the same as comparable 1-1/8 oz loads, then why not get the heavier load for the mental confidence? But since I reload, and the extra 1/8 oz of shot adds up over the shooting season, and I know that the lighter load will break any target I point the gun at properly, I usually load 1 oz to save the shot over the season, and for lighter recoil(getting old is not for wimps). And that is also why I often shoot 7/8 oz loads. But then I shoot for fun, not profit.


The answer to your question is excessive recoil is the reason to not buy 1 1/8 ounce. That is what we have been talking about for two pages. Some think it is an issue, some don’t. Like most conversations on here, I don’t think anyone is going to change their minds.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Lacy, you make a very good point about 1 1/8 loads and the mental game. The reality of this is that bunker shooters use a 24 dram load and break faster targets that are thicker in the dome so these targets can handle the very hot springs. When this discipline went to the lighter load, the scores went up. This is a fact. This can only be contributed to less recoil. I agree with the statement to shoot what you have the most confidence in. In my opinion, the mental game is far more important than worrying about loads.

I once wrote an article for Shotgun Sports Magazine call "The Chokes and Loads of the champions." For those of you who never read this article and would like to read what all of these great shooters from around the world said, you can get the article by writing the magazine and request it. I would just post it here but the magazine puts a copyright on all of it's articles it prints. By the way, you will be surprise at the comments that I got from these shooters.

I would also like to mention that the best breaks come from the core of the pattern. The core is the heaviest concentration of shot. I used to pattern different loads and I found that the core of a one ounce shell is just as heavy and 1 ounce load. The heavier load will have a lot more flyers because of the shot deformation of that extra 1/8 ounce. This is where back boring comes into place or at least a bigger bore.

Fred, as a trap shooter you may remember Stan baker's big bore shotgun barrels. They relieved a lot of pressure because of the larger area the shot had to go through. I have found that when shooting a full choke you will have a lot more shot that becomes ineffective. These are my findings and may not be the same with other shooters. Just my opinion.

Mike McAlpine


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:29 pm 
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If you can handle the recoil of 1 1/8 ounce, why would you shoot less? Some of us can, especially those shooting automatics.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:18 pm 
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Here is the deal.

You want to break every target that you properly point whether it is 10 yards or 60 yards.

A quality 1 1/8 oz. load will always put more pellets in the effective pattern than a equal quality 1 oz. load will. Why? Because the effective pattern size of a 1 1/8 oz. load will always be slightly larger than the effective pattern size of a 1 oz. load.

This is NOT a night and day difference and in reality it probably only means a target or two per 1,000 rounds, if that. BUT getting a punch or winning your class is many times determined by 1 target.

BTW, I am not advocating for any particular load.

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aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
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Location: Central Maine
Ultimately pick whatever works for you and run with it. No approval from anyone is needed and there are literally hundreds of factory ammo choices or reloading recipes to align with whatever you like

Over time most shooters refine or change or simply their choices regarding equipment and ammo. In my case I have learned that what I do with the equipment and ammo matters far more than the equipment and ammo.

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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:03 am 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
All the Bona fide 27 yard trapshooters shoot 1 1/8 ounce.


Those 27 yard trapshooters know a lot about shotgun ammo performance at long distances.


On those targets......yes they do. But it’s hardly an ironclad truth for all of the various types of shooting, and shooters. Shoot what you want, SUAS.


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 Post subject: Re: Semi-Auto shooters.. 1 1/8 oz...?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:40 am 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
All the Bona fide 27 yard trapshooters shoot 1 1/8 ounce.


Those 27 yard trapshooters know a lot about shotgun ammo performance at long distances.


And every long-time trapshooter I have known uses a release trigger because of the flinch they have developed. None of them seem to want to shoot bunker with 7/8oz loads either.



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