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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:34 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 144
Location: NC
I lost one at some point during a round and did not realize it until I got home and cleaned the gun. So, I guess I did not need it. However, I still replaced it because it bugged me once I learned it was not there.
But, that's just me and how I am wired.




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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:46 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5990
friend of a friend wrote:
Rooster booster wrote:
friend of a friend wrote:
Rooster booster wrote:
Roberto, maybe you should put in the time to actually learn about, and understand the various ways to hit flying targets before trying to enlighten others?;-) how’re those true pairs coming with your eye rigidly ‘locked’ onto the rib?

We hear stories here all the time about the many shooters who successfully defy your wisdom, some at championship level. Also the many coaches who teach different students according to their preferences and the particular styles most comfortable for them. I know you are a fine shot, likely better than I could ever hope to be no matter what technique I choose to use. Still, representing your method as the one and only right way to shoot is, as I said above, just plain ignorant.


Wrong again Roberto. I’ve only criticized your preaching about the one ‘right’ way you’ve spouted in the past. Do your research, and you’ll see I’ve said ‘whatever works’. But you, were quick to argue with everyone, including world champions, who were kind enough to donate a lesson.

Surely you aren’t saying that I said anything about one right way today. I mean except right for me. So in other words we are saying exactly the same thing. There are a lot of ways to do it. Pick the one that works best for you. Of course that is what I have always said. You must be thinking of someone else, this guy named Roberto. I certainly am in no position to speak for him. Good to know we agree. Of course you will forgive my misconception regarding your position. You seem so determined to discredit me, it is hard to keep track of what’s what. And all along we were in agreement. Go figure.

I’m not sure I understand your world champion reference. I don’t recall ever arguing with one of them. But a free lesson does sound pretty neat. Let me know if you ever decide to give any. I hear you know what you are doing.


You are funny.....I’ll give you that;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:58 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Lacyb wrote:
friend of a friend wrote:
Mike McAlpine wrote:
Browning,

Great reply. I couldn't agree with you more

Friend,

While I am not trying to get in a pissing match, I do want to respectfully disagree with you. Aiming a shotgun while trying to break a flying clay target is not an acceptable way of shooting. The main reason I say this is because when you look in the bead or the end of barrell, you can't focus on the target. I have taught a lot of people to shoot in my career and I can always tell when they are aiming or looking at the barrell. When this happens, the barrell will almost always stop which will cause the shooter to miss the target, most of the time behind it.

When a shooter willingly shoots with one eye, that shooter will no longer have depth perception or peripheral vision. Both are conducive to good shooting. Now with that said, I have known some trap shooters who can do this but their target variety is limited to outgoing presentations and quartering away targets.

Mike McAlpine
"Inside the Mind of a Target Setter"

These comments are not only mine but of most all good instructors or coaches and shooters.

Mike, you are superimposing one technique on the other, but it doesn’t work that way. Aiming IS about looking at the place you want the shot to go. It is not about looking at the bead, and it is not about looking at the barrel. You are taking the defects common in two-eyed gun pointing, and assuming they matter when aiming. When aiming, you can’t look at the barrel, because you are looking down it. You can’t look at the bead, because you are looking past it. You don’t stop the gun, because you have no temptation to look at the barrel. It just can’t be done with only one eye open and fixed over the rib.

As for depth perception from using two eyes, that is a silly myth. Past about 20 ft the advantage of using two eyes has almost completely disappeared. Beyond a target distance about 100X the distance between your eyes, there is no advantage to two eyes for depth perception. The further the shot, the less the second eye matters.

The one drawback to shooting with one eye is not a total loss of peripheral vision, but rather the loss of only about 20 of the field of vision you would have with two eyes. See for yourself. It is easy to do. That loss of peripheral vision is a very small price to pay for not seeing two targets, not having the target look differently when coming from the left than the right, not having to worry about dominance, etc., etc. The list of advantages goes on and on.


I am bit confused by some of this as I have never really shot one eyed while looking down the barrel (aiming) so I have a few questions.

1) How can you not look at the barrel/bead and see only past them with only one eye? When ever I practice my mount at home I mount with two eyes open and point the gun and then check the mount by closing the off eye and when doing this the barrel and bead take up a good amount of visual space. With 2 eyes open i can make "ghost barrels" and look past the barrel bead when focusing down the rib. However for most targets my eyes would not be down rib anyway.

2) if in this aiming method you want to avoid looking at the bead and also want to look down the barrel why would you ever have a bead to begin with? In the 2 eyed look at the target method the bead provides subconscious reference point when the eyes are not looking down the barrel. What purpose does it provide with this technique?

3) how does one slow everything down both visually and gun speed wise with this method? In the standard method your eyes are fully disconnected from the barrels during set up so they can create visual control over the target and get in sync with it while the gun moves less distance over a longer visual window thereby slowing everything down compared to having the eyes and the gun travel the same path from target acquisition to shot placement.

Never really heard anyone explain this aiming method.

The eye skims the rib for a 50/50 shot distribution. If you see the rib, your eye is too high and you will shoot high. Sure the bead is centered on the target, but I am not looking at it. I am looking through it. You are right the bead isn’t needed. With the proper mount and only one open eye over the rib, the gun will shoot where I look. So I look at the place I want the shot to intersect the target, or in other words I see the lead in front of the target. Both are in my visual field, but the empty space where the shot is going is in the center at the time of the shot. What I like about it is the total lack of visual confusion. So many folks complain about this or that visual problem, but they are totally absent using my method.

All that talk about slowing things down is totally foreign to me. Never heard of it. I just follow the target visually and then shift my vision ahead to put the shot where the target is going...hopefully.

I hope this helps. I have no idea whether this would be of any value to you. But I like it for me. What else is there?


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:29 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:02 am
Posts: 98
So do you try to keep your eye and barrel inline the entire process from calling pull to pulling the trigger or do you start with your eye and barrel separated and then bring them together at some point in your move to the target?


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:41 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Lacyb wrote:
So do you try to keep your eye and barrel inline the entire process from calling pull to pulling the trigger or do you start with your eye and barrel separated and then bring them together at some point in your move to the target?

Most of the time locked up together from the mount through the shot. That causes me to hold the gun a little closer to the trap than some folks. Occasionally on a bird that is hard to pick up way off to the side, I will roll my eyes back toward the trap and then relock them on the rib once I acquire the bird as it approaches the line of the muzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:51 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:02 am
Posts: 98
So I take it you shoot pre mounted rather than low gun or cheat mount.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:07 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2387
Friend,

I stand corrected. I was just trying to give you from my 50 years experience as a clay target shooter and a 35 year professional clay target instructor / coach. I stand corrected so you do it your way and I wish you good shooting.

Mike McAlpine

{hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:17 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 9083
Location: Rochester, NY
Show me one top shooter in any clay target sport that shoots without a bead, and I'll show you 500 who do. Just because you're different doesn't mean you're right.

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:29 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2387
Skeet, I couldn't have said it better myself. Friend, I am just kidding you a little but I am right!


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:35 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Lacyb wrote:
So I take it you shoot pre mounted rather than low gun or cheat mount.

Most of the time I do shoot pre-mounted as I have observed most other clay shooters doing except in games that forbid it. If required, I can shoot low mount, but I don’t like it as well. When I do shoot low mount, I do not hold the gun pushed out front of me with the muzzle angle pointed at the target line as that puts a lot of torque on my lower back. I hold the gun completely vertical and close to my chest to prevent back pain. But that is only an occasional thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:38 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Mike McAlpine wrote:
Friend,

I stand corrected. I was just trying to give you from my 50 years experience as a clay target shooter and a 35 year professional clay target instructor / coach. I stand corrected so you do it your way and I wish you good shooting.

Mike McAlpine

{hs#

Many thanks, Mike. It has been a pleasure discussing this with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:43 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Skeet_Man wrote:
Show me one top shooter in any clay target sport that shoots without a bead, and I'll show you 500 who do. Just because you're different doesn't mean you're right.

I agree completely. But it also doesn’t mean I am wrong.

Your post is confusing. Do you want a top shooter who does or does not shoot with a bead? Haley Dunn shoots without one.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:42 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:48 pm
Posts: 341
I think it is interesting that out 'friend' has been on the board 4 days, and has over 250 posts in that time ? I wonder what his syllable count is - usually the inverse of IQ

To be that young on the board and to be calling board members by a derogatory name is ballsy

I would love to see him shoot gun down with the gun held vertically :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:12 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
Posts: 2698
Browning Citori Guy wrote:
I think it is interesting that out 'friend' has been on the board 4 days, and has over 250 posts in that time ? I wonder what his syllable count is - usually the inverse of IQ

To be that young on the board and to be calling board members by a derogatory name is ballsy

I would love to see him shoot gun down with the gun held vertically :shock:


He’s not really new to the forum. I believe this is the 4th iteration.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:43 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Browning Citori Guy wrote:
I think it is interesting that out 'friend' has been on the board 4 days, and has over 250 posts in that time ? I wonder what his syllable count is - usually the inverse of IQ

To be that young on the board and to be calling board members by a derogatory name is ballsy

I would love to see him shoot gun down with the gun held vertically :shock:

Anytime, Buster.

Have you any sense of how ugly it is to talk about someone who is present instead to them? If you have something to say about me, say it to me. You should have been taught better. Maybe you were, but it just didn’t take. There is a lot of that going around right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:37 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5990
Here it comes......the ‘melt down’:-). Followed by quiet time, followed by the next ‘personality’


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:39 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9289
Location: Louisiana
Skeet_Man wrote:
Show me one top shooter in any clay target sport that shoots without a bead, and I'll show you 500 who do. Just because you're different doesn't mean you're right.


Thank you, Sir. It is a pleasure to see someone with cred expressing what the "never-beaders" won't admit.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:16 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 9083
Location: Rochester, NY
Rooster booster wrote:
Here it comes......the ‘melt down’:-). Followed by quiet time, followed by the next ‘personality’


LOL

I thought ole PenMan said that once he was kicked off a board he didn't waste his time coming back...

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:17 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5990
Skeet_Man wrote:
Rooster booster wrote:
Here it comes......the ‘melt down’:-). Followed by quiet time, followed by the next ‘personality’


LOL

I thought ole PenMan said that once he was kicked off a board he didn't waste his time coming back...


He meant it:-), the ‘new’ personas time isn’t ‘his’ time;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Front sight or no front sight
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:57 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:17 pm
Posts: 60
Just wanted input on front sight vs no front sight




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