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 Post subject: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:05 am 
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This was a very enlightening podcast on the status of the ammo shortage and what the next 6 months to a year will bring, not only for Fiocchi but the entire ammo industry as a whole.

Good listen

https://www.shotgunsportsusa.com/podcast/



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Last edited by birdshooter on Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:10 pm 
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One of my frustrations dealing with this industry is hard facts are very difficult to come by. Bryan started off talking in circles but finally gave some very interesting info. Two very interesting points for me were the incredible growth in purchases due to new gun ownership and the impact of the Remington bankruptcy. I didn't really think the new gun ownership situation had much bearing on the issue but if all those folks bought 4 boxes of shells that would have a serious impact. You have to do a little calculating on your own but Remington (he didn't call them by name) cut their production by 2/3rds when they went into bankruptcy. That amount over a full year was almost twice Fiocchi U.S.A. yearly production. Obviously supply chain disruptions and the ability to get raw materials were a problem during shut downs, particularly in Europe. If you have some time and are interested some time its worth a listen. Thanks for posting.


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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
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Location: New Mexico
Some other interesting points in this podcast about the ammunition shortfall -

1 - Fiocchi USA from 2019 to 2020 increased their shotshell production almost 45% due to very high demand. But they are at full capacity and about full overtime at their Ozark MO plant right now and have been for months. To increase their shotshell production now, they need more capacity as well as more trained workforce and supplies. Fiocchi has another plant that could make shotshells in Arkansas, but they are not yet close to production status.

1a - The whole US consumption of shotshells in 2020 was stated in the podcast to have been about 1.2 billion shells. Previous years - perhaps 25% that high. Of which Fiocchi USA supplied about 150 million on 2020. And a surprising amount of that was buckshot loads, although close to half of Fiocchi's production went to dove hunters in the Gulf Coast states.

2 - B&P, which was bought by Fiocchi recently, has extra shotshell production (factory) capacity right now. Fiocchi would like to get some of that capacity turned into pro0duction to import to the US. One of their near term goals. B&P will continue to run their own existing products. So, we may see a strong increase in volume of B&P shells once Fiocchi starts distributing them.

3 - Most Fiocchi shotshells sold in the US are now (and for several years have been) made in the US, at the Ozark, Missouri plant, with only the primed hulls coming from Italy. A few specialty loads like spreaders and papers are imported as loaded ammo.

4 - Fiocchi's warehouses are empty, their distributor level warehouses are empty at this point. There's no ammo being held back.

5 - They estimate now that the ammo industry may take all of 2021 to get to where demand can be close to being met. Not just Fiocchi, and not just shotshell products, but the whole industry. Even with the Lonoke, Arkansas, ex-Remington plant being brought back on line after Federal's purchase of that plant recently. The shotshell demand right now is running higher than has EVER been seen before by at least twice, and maybe more.

This podcast is important for most shooters to listen to, even if it starts off slow. It explains more than most of any other current information sources what is happening in ammo supply currently.

good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:45 am 
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Location: Minnesota
Another eye opener that contributed to demand on ammo.

8 million new gun owners in 2020 :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:44 pm
Posts: 202
Location: Lowcountry of SC
I saw elsewhere that estimates are may be closer to 12 million new, first time gun owners. That puts a lot of pressure on shotshell, pistol, and rifle ammo, and components to make them.

Bryan spoke like a sales and marketing manager! Circular (sales and service training)...establish contact and common ground, speak generally until you earn the right (bona fides) to ask, or give, specifics, etc. He did a good job without hyping anything.

The ammo manufacturers want to make and sell all they can, but they don't want to invest too much, too fast in new equipment, or plants, and then have some market equilibration (or rebound of Remington production) slow the frantic demand. They have to be business smart.

Hopefully, things will be better with regard to availability/price in the Summer/Fall time frame.

In the mean time, hang on for the ride may be bumpier.

JB


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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:48 pm 
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Take-5-JB wrote:
The ammo manufacturers want to make and sell all they can, but they don't want to invest too much, too fast in new equipment, or plants, and then have some market equilibration (or rebound of Remington production) slow the frantic demand. They have to be business smart.
JB


Actually, as Bryan mentioned, Fiocchi is investing in a new plant in Little Rock, however this will be Centerfire ammo only. This will no doubt increase their capacity for pistol/rifle ammo production.

https://katv.com/news/local/fiocchi-amm ... CK%20(KATV)%20%E2%80%94%20Fiocchio,will%20create%20about%2085%20jobs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2371
garrisonjoe wrote:
Some other interesting points in this podcast about the ammunition shortfall -

1 - Fiocchi USA from 2019 to 2020 increased their shotshell production almost 45% due to very high demand. But they are at full capacity and about full overtime at their Ozark MO plant right now and have been for months. To increase their shotshell production now, they need more capacity as well as more trained workforce and supplies. Fiocchi has another plant that could make shotshells in Arkansas, but they are not yet close to production status.

1a - The whole US consumption of shotshells in 2020 was stated in the podcast to have been about 1.2 billion shells. Previous years - perhaps 25% that high. Of which Fiocchi USA supplied about 150 million on 2020. And a surprising amount of that was buckshot loads, although close to half of Fiocchi's production went to dove hunters in the Gulf Coast states.

2 - B&P, which was bought by Fiocchi recently, has extra shotshell production (factory) capacity right now. Fiocchi would like to get some of that capacity turned into pro0duction to import to the US. One of their near term goals. B&P will continue to run their own existing products. So, we may see a strong increase in volume of B&P shells once Fiocchi starts distributing them.

3 - Most Fiocchi shotshells sold in the US are now (and for several years have been) made in the US, at the Ozark, Missouri plant, with only the primed hulls coming from Italy. A few specialty loads like spreaders and papers are imported as loaded ammo.

4 - Fiocchi's warehouses are empty, their distributor level warehouses are empty at this point. There's no ammo being held back.

5 - They estimate now that the ammo industry may take all of 2021 to get to where demand can be close to being met. Not just Fiocchi, and not just shotshell products, but the whole industry. Even with the Lonoke, Arkansas, ex-Remington plant being brought back on line after Federal's purchase of that plant recently. The shotshell demand right now is running higher than has EVER been seen before by at least twice, and maybe more.

This podcast is important for most shooters to listen to, even if it starts off slow. It explains more than most of any other current information sources what is happening in ammo supply currently.

good luck, garrisonjoe


Thanks Garrison, good recap.


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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:48 am 
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Location: Minnesota
Shotgun sports usa podcast.

President of Winchester ammunition is interviewed, at about 28 minutes into the interview they start talking about the ammunition shortage.

https://shotgunsportsusa.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1547
I didn’t get the warm and fuzzies from his response to the question about if govt orders were contributing to the shortage.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:30 pm
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Maybe they should pump the brakes just a bit.
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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:03 am 
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birdhunter39 wrote:
I didn’t get the warm and fuzzies from his response to the question about if govt orders were contributing to the shortage.


I thought he was very clear that they're not.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:20 am
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birdhunter39 wrote:
I didn’t get the warm and fuzzies from his response to the question about if govt orders were contributing to the shortage.
This article in OL gives a pretty good summary of how the military purchases its ammo. I really don't think the military is the one buying all the ammo.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/guns/ ... lian-ammo/

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Bornes of Fiocchi on Shotgun Sports Podcast
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:37 pm 
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birdshooter wrote:
Shotgun sports usa podcast.

President of Winchester ammunition is interviewed, at about 28 minutes into the interview they start talking about the ammunition shortage.

https://shotgunsportsusa.com/


Seems like a very competent manager and I appreciate Winchester's support of the shooting sports, but that was a waste of 30 minutes. He didn't say anything that hasn't been said already.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
Posts: 194
You were expecting? Good news? Proof of a mass conspiracy? He was asked to be interviewed and accepted.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:19 am 
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Flyingtargets! wrote:
You were expecting? Good news? Proof of a mass conspiracy? He was asked to be interviewed and accepted.


I wasn’t expecting much and I didn’t get much. It was a 30 minute ad for Winchester. There is nothing wrong with that, just not very useful. I guarantee these guys have more hard data than they are releasing. If you are actively exploring M and A opportunities, like Vista and Fiocchi have done, you’re going to keep your cards close to your vest.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
Posts: 194
Of course. And was really my question. Since you seem to know how the game is played, expressing surprise over just that seems odd.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:43 am 
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Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
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While i'm not comfy with the responses on ammo availability and gov't impact on it i DO very much appreciate the support they give to our sport including sponsoring shooters, podcasts, $50k to women shooters in NSCA, etc. etc. And let's not forget Winchester AA shells are the gold standard.

If anything i thought it was fairly impressive they even bothered to ask the questions whether scripted or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:11 am 
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Flyingtargets! wrote:
Of course. And was really my question. Since you seem to know how the game is played, expressing surprise over just that seems odd.


Where did I say I was surprised? I expressed my opinion that that was a waste of 30 minutes. You are reading something into it that's not there.

Again, I appreciate Winchester's support of our game.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
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Sure. Ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Sports USA Podcast
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:29 pm 
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Flyingtargets! wrote:
Sure. Ok.


You've been on the forum for a month and want to start on argument by misquoting something I said. That doesn't seem like a very productive or necessary course to take.

Of course, this last witty retort sets everything right.




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