ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:04 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 205 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:17 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 2080
I think that the aversion to using the word 'measuring' is because it means so much difference to different people. As we know many haven't got a clue when it comes to accurately measuring size by eyesight, In a coaching scenario I think we should always use the term 'give it more or give it less' .I cannot understand people who say they cannot see lead at the target ? If the target is out there surely they have some idea of placing the muzzle peripherally out in front and perhaps a little under the flight line? They really must be able to do so because their description if they are describing lead at the muzzle MUST take into account the gap of 'THEIR' lead between muzzle -lead- target?




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:19 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
salopian I agree 100% with what you say here. Shooters always struggle with seeing lead out there at the target. If anyone doubts this, try putting two orange traffic cones in the middle of a field about six feet apart and ask several shooters how far apart they think they are and you will get wildly conflicting answers.

But all competitive shooters must be able to make a decision on how far in front of the target they must shoot to intercept it. That, IMO is measuring or as I call it TLAR "that looks about right to me". What else can it be? {hs#


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:06 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 1033
Location: Fresno,CA
Ahh...measuring...so many other things can be happening.

_________________
"I may be crazy but I ain't stupid"!

"I instruct to break targets...I coach to compete".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:32 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
Just like the footballer who is throwing a running pass to a receiver. He is mentally measuring how far in front of the receiver he must throw the ball so that the receiver can catch it without breaking his stride. And he has to learn how to do that over a period of time. With shotgunning, we are never, ever, shooting AT the target. We are attempting to put our cloud of pellets into the anticipated flight path of it......just like the footballer. And if we don't know how to read the targets and anticipate where that point is, how do we know when to pull the trigger? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:44 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 1033
Location: Fresno,CA
The operative word...time!

_________________
"I may be crazy but I ain't stupid"!

"I instruct to break targets...I coach to compete".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:58 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
I agree.......depending on your coach. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:48 pm
Posts: 356
I see that Muledriver has little education as he cannot comprehend a compound sentence that Mr Blakely uses, be aware Mr Blakely DOES speak the Queens English after all

Quote:
or in some form of measurement
is not what Muledriver thinks it is


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:27 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:27 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Kentucky
Tell me more about this footballer. Does he see his hand and/or the ball out of his peripheral vision when he throws the ball so he can judge how far to lead the receiver?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:54 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
At the moment the ball leaves his hand? Of course. Unless he throws the ball behind him....... :wink: But he already has a mental picture of where he needs to throw the ball and how hard he needs to throw it. That only comes with practice, like reading targets.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:24 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3270
pete blakeley wrote:
muledriver Of course, you are correct, as always. But then, when you can successfully read targets and your brain tells you one target needs 3 feet of lead and another target needs 12 feet of lead what do you do? I guess that isn't "measuring"is it? Silly me. But what would you call it?


I believe the term most prefer, and teach is “feel” the lead.

Saying during your pre-shot planning that a target needs a certain amount of lead is an exercise to program your brain, but pulling the trigger when you’ve measured exactly 3 feet (instead of 4 or 5 feet) is not the same thing. And your muzzle speed complicates shooting an exact measurement.


Quote:
And of course it isn't what all the other competent coaches tell you because many of them can't explain lead in a logical way and they would prefer that you keep coming back for more lessons. But perhaps that's why it takes some shooters several years to get to Master? :roll:


Just had a 3 hour one on one lesson (plus 45 minutes of discussion prior to that) with Zach today. He never discussed measuring exact footage when triggering the shot. Rather we spent time on plan, seeing the target clearly, 1.5 second focus time, tempo, and muzzle insertion.

It all worked extremely well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:46 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3270
pete blakeley wrote:
At the moment the ball leaves his hand? Of course. Unless he throws the ball behind him....... :wink: But he already has a mental picture of where he needs to throw the ball and how hard he needs to throw it. That only comes with practice, like reading targets.


Pete, I have 21 years of coaching football, and handled the QBs. I had 9 of these kids go onto being starters at the Division 1 level. Two made it to the pros.

At no time do they see the football leaving their hand. Not even in their peripheral vision.

I agree he has a mental picture where the ball needs to go to complete the pass, but he’s not measuring that in exact feet. He does that by knowing his receiver, knowing the angle of the pass, and how fast he runs. He uses that to feel the lead.

If he sees the ball coming off his hand, he’s going to have a tough time seeing the receiver. Great recipe for an interception.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:24 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
muledriver Both your posts are absolute baloney. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Last edited by pete blakeley on Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3270
pete blakeley wrote:
muledriver Both your posts are absolute baloney. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


No, they are not, Pete. Rather, they both are spot on. The truth stings, and you’re wincing real bad.

That QB analogy you made is pure stupidity on your part. Have some balls and tell me what I posted is baloney. Go ahead, dig yourself a bigger hole.

You’re a joke Pete. A total joke.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:43 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:38 pm
Posts: 7934
Location: Northwest Pa.
Is it just me or is it time to lock this crap?

_________________
Terry



Gun and Shell Sponsor / My Wife
Polaris Ranger
Krieghoff K80 Plantation Grade
Muller Chokes
Brain Chokes

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:31 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 2080
Terry ,
I think it could be the right time to lock this topic , not because it is crap , more like the fact that Muledriver will never believe a word that Peter Blakeley says .
The facts are , you cannot 'FEEL' the lead , you can 'SEE it ' .
Feeling is to touch it , Seeing is using your vision.
Blakeley's advice is free here , take it or leave it . Or you could be as stubborn as Mulehead and pay handsomely on multiple occasions to learn very little .
It is his money so he can choose to do with it what he wishes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:45 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 2080
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIuMPc3tRxQ

Maybe Muledriver will believe this ? It is from an American company not a Scot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:44 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
salopian As you know some of us post on here for the benefit of others but as you say there are some that delight in stirring things up regardless. In an attempt to return to normal discussion I have now blocked Muledriver. {hs#


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:35 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3270
Pete,

What you posted about QBS was totally incorrect. You want the pass released from “on top” which means at 12:00. If done correctly, the QB can’t see his hand or the ball at that point.No way.

You continue to spew false information. What you said was totally wrong.


Last edited by Mule Driver on Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:57 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3270
salopian wrote:
Terry ,
I think it could be the right time to lock this topic , not because it is crap , more like the fact that Muledriver will never believe a word that Peter Blakeley says .


That’s not true Sal. Pete has some very good things in his book. But no one is going to convince me that exact measuring the lead when triggering the gun is a smart thing.

Quote:
The facts are , you cannot 'FEEL' the lead , you can 'SEE it ' .
Feeling is to touch it , Seeing is using your vision.


If true, which it’s not, then you might want to explain to Peter that the title of his book “Read the Line, Feel the Lead” is all wrong by your standards. Of course, you can feel the lead. Very popular method. Much better than measuring it.

Quote:
Blakeley's advice is free here , take it or leave it . Or you could be as stubborn as Mulehead and pay handsomely on multiple occasions to learn very little .
It is his money so he can choose to do with it what he wishes.


Only someone as arrogant as you could make such a stupid statement as that. Spending a couple hours with someone like Zach going to result in “to learn very little”? Nothing could be further from the truth, my good man.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Reading Targets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:26 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:02 am
Posts: 155
Not likely to change the direction of this thread or anyone's clearly engrained opinions but I really think everyone is fighting about semantics. What a lot of the top shooters and coaches refer to as "feeling" the lead is really about having a clear subconscious awareness in the peripheral vision letting them know the barrel is on the correct line and far enough in front of the clay to break the target. In order to initially build that subconscious capability and inventory of sight pictures to have to 1st see it enough times and have success breaking the targets enough times with some amout of higher awareness before your brain can minimize that awareness to the point you don't actually "see" the barrel anymore. Pete is basically teaching a method initially gauging that lead visually with less pictures to memorize into the stored subconscious memory to allow one to "feel" the lead. The general concept he uses is that 5 different "units" of visual lead on the correct line can break anytarget when you account for pattern spread typical clay target speed and distance. It should in theory lead to the same end result of only looking at the target and instinctively being aware of the barrel/clay relationship.

FYI I did buy the books and read most if it. Liked some of the content but didn't finish it and don't plan to implement the teachings at this point. I do think it could speed up learning for a brand new shooter though.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 205 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 5 Stand Dan, 870Slugger, AJ-M12, albanygun, Bing [Bot], birdhunter39, boboy, BPdiver, checker, cheecho1960, cookoff013, dannyd93140, DavySprocket, dfw_bill, Docterduck, double20, dpe2002, Drew Hause, drt1911*, ellisjre, excess650, Flyingtargets!, Gadwall, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], goosedowner, GulfCoast, Hollywood22, HusqvarnaSweden, John H, JoM, juliusledbetter, Keperkey, LEDBET, lossking, luckydogg, Majestic-12 [Bot], mddan, Mike McAlpine, Mule Driver, OBH Gun Club, ohio mike, oyeme, Paddler, painter*, Pine Creek/Dave, PJDiesel, PJR, PKW-Indiana, Roger Gascoigne, Rubberhead, Safetyfast, Sivart, Skeet_Man, skeetsit, Terrapin, Tidefanatic, tresamigovizslas, twin rivers, TWISTER7795, Warden, Woodymac, YevetS


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice