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 Post subject: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:53 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:43 am
Posts: 475
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
We have in the last year set up a course and I am looking for books or reference material on setting targets. I am patiently waiting for Mike McApines's book to be available, are there any other sources?
Thanks




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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:02 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5885
The good setters make decent money. They don't give away secrets.


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:31 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 13652
99% of target setters make no money. A few at the top end make enough to finance a Yugo.

Rather than read a book, go outside and use your imagination.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:49 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:46 pm
Posts: 283
Location: Charlottesville, VA
It might be a good move to slide over to Michigan and shoot or walk Pat Liske's courses or go to the Detroit gun club and see how they set targets for shoots. Both do an excellent job.
Or follow Sera's advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:02 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:53 pm
Posts: 902
Location: Montgomery, Alabama
Nothing will beat experience.
1. shot fall! Just because you would take a shot at that point doesnt mean others will. The target needs to be able to be shot from machine to ground even if you think it is absurd. Someone will attempt it and better be safe
2. Make sure it can be seen
3. Be aware of the sun at varying times of the day
4. Make sure the shooters have enough time to attempt the target

-Try to keep left to right and right to left balanced. not firm but something to be aware of
-1/3 low, 1/3 medium, 1/3 high. not firm but something to be aware of
-I try to have a plan for special terrain and tight windows first, as larger windows give me more options. Get a game plan on them and then move on to the other stands.
-During tournaments dont forget to plan on traps being filled/serviced. I have volunteered to help at a shoot and had to shut down three stations or get shot to fill one machine.

I get it right some times, some times I don't. I will throw things I know I got right in the past during a tournament and I will play around on a practice course and push it some times. Besides that have fun with it. Been setting for 30 years and still trying out new things now.
Talk to a few folks and see how they think out setting a course.

_________________
All your clay shooting needs in Montgomery AL.
Give us a call at 334-420-3371 or check us out at http://www.LWSSC.com or BECOME A FAN ON FACEBOOK


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:40 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:43 am
Posts: 475
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
We still have too much snow to get the course running I just was looking for more information. LWSSC I have learned some of those four lessons, your advice is sound. I'm a person with a great ability to copy what I have seen before just not creative in the first place.
Thank you all keep the advice coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:08 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:35 pm
Posts: 866
Do what I did, go to as many grounds as physically possible! Take note of any presentation that intrigued you ( whether you hit them or not!) I brought back many ideas from France and the rest of Europe and Africa .
Don't be frightend to use them, you will get some right and some wrong it's a learning curve !


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:27 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:00 pm
Posts: 49
500sks wrote:
... I'm a person with a great ability to copy what I have seen before just not creative in the first place.
Thank you all keep the advice coming.


There are nearly limitless YouTube videos on how to shoot various target presentations. Some of them good too. :)

Most all provide you the opportunity to see the flight path of the bird while they analyze what makes it challenging. Also, lots of videos on tournament shoots. Again, more opportunity to see various presentations and then duplicate the interesting ones accordingly.

Great setter at my club who really knows how to maximize the use of the natural terrain. I think that is where the real creativity comes into play - will be different for every club of course...


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:43 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:19 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Tampa Florida
Syreel

Has given away all my secrets, I copied from every where I have shot UK, Germany France and 20 States ( not been to Africa)

but Matthew (LWSSC) gave you the best summary I have seen. Oh learn your traps abiities

Roger

_________________
Roger Gascoigne
AMICSI, CPSA Certified Coach
NSSA Level 1 Skeet Instructor
Phone 813-907-7340
Check out our E-books on Amazon here
http://www.rogergascoigneshootingcoach.com/books.html


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:04 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5885
sera wrote:
99% of target setters make no money. A few at the top end make enough to finance a Yugo.

Rather than read a book, go outside and use your imagination.

Disagree. I know plenty with over 15 years in the business. They rent machines and set targets at all the major shoots and also own shooting grounds. They aren't non profit organizations.


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:07 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 13652
Of course, when you rent machines they pay you. But go to a club and just set targets on their machines and ask to be paid.

Actually , don't bother to ask. :lol:

I set targets for about 30 tournaments. There is mostly nothing new under the sun. It was all copying pairs I had shot before and liked. I ditched the crappy pairs.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:31 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:03 pm
Posts: 414
It0026 It is good to see you back posting. How is your recovery going.


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:42 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5885
Darkhorse60 wrote:
It0026 It is good to see you back posting. How is your recovery going.

Week since operation. Up and around with a 6/8 week recovery. Thanks for asking. Never thought this would ever happen. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:29 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:03 pm
Posts: 414
I am glad you are still with us!


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:04 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2558
Well, I guess there are many of you who don't think much of my ability. That's okay. Try learning on your own, I did and it has only taken me 35 years to do this. Sera used to think I was a good setter and coach but that is gone now. That's too bad Sera, I always liked you and Ann.

Mike McAlpine


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:17 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:48 pm
Posts: 599
You need to get ahold of Steve Knoll in southern WI and see if he will come up for a day and give you some help. He routinely sets for the courses in southeastern WI and Northern Illinois as well as Nationals. He has a good handle on what recreational shooters want to see and help you sell targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:38 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 23381
LWSSC wrote:
Nothing will beat experience.
1. shot fall! Just because you would take a shot at that point doesnt mean others will. The target needs to be able to be shot from machine to ground even if you think it is absurd. Someone will attempt it and better be safe
2. Make sure it can be seen
3. Be aware of the sun at varying times of the day
4. Make sure the shooters have enough time to attempt the target

-Try to keep left to right and right to left balanced. not firm but something to be aware of
-1/3 low, 1/3 medium, 1/3 high. not firm but something to be aware of
-I try to have a plan for special terrain and tight windows first, as larger windows give me more options. Get a game plan on them and then move on to the other stands.
-During tournaments dont forget to plan on traps being filled/serviced. I have volunteered to help at a shoot and had to shut down three stations or get shot to fill one machine.

I get it right some times, some times I don't. I will throw things I know I got right in the past during a tournament and I will play around on a practice course and push it some times. Besides that have fun with it. Been setting for 30 years and still trying out new things now.
Talk to a few folks and see how they think out setting a course.


Some of the best setters I know keep detailed note/sketch books of every presentation and they are then riding around during the shoot and checking scoresheets to see how folks are doing. Something that looks really good on paper but has folks only getting 1 or 2 out of 8 needs to be revisited. The BIG thing is, as you mentioned, where the damn sun is. Too many times a great presentation is made impossible because the shooters are looking directly into the sun.

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:12 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:19 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Tampa Florida
Don

on all shoots I would go round the course and see how shooters were doing as well as my RO's who were checking safety and behavior.

On NSCA competition courses I would send a Master, AA, D and C shooter out to check the course was OK, and decide the secret stations

My weekly newsletter would comment on the NSCA result we got in, not just placings but how people scored on stands, and what technique would be best. That is where my Tips book came from.

Roger

_________________
Roger Gascoigne
AMICSI, CPSA Certified Coach
NSSA Level 1 Skeet Instructor
Phone 813-907-7340
Check out our E-books on Amazon here
http://www.rogergascoigneshootingcoach.com/books.html


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:16 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:53 pm
Posts: 902
Location: Montgomery, Alabama
Mike McAlpine wrote:
Well, I guess there are many of you who don't think much of my ability.

Mike, he said he was awaiting your book so I didn't mention it since he already did. What we are mentioning is some tips for the interim. I think everyone here has enjoyed your targets over the years and I know I am looking forward to your book too.

_________________
All your clay shooting needs in Montgomery AL.
Give us a call at 334-420-3371 or check us out at http://www.LWSSC.com or BECOME A FAN ON FACEBOOK


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 Post subject: Re: Target setting books
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:29 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2159
There's some good advice on here, especially from Roger and Sera. As others have said, absolutely nothing beats experience. I was at a SC tournament in Dubai several years ago where they were throwing all orange targets. By midday with the sun on them, nobody could see them. And I once went to a shoot here in the Dallas area where the setter proudly told me:- "I can set targets that nobody can hit" :roll:




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