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 Post subject: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:50 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2527
I went to the club and shot my first tournament today since the 2016 Nationals. I still had my shooter number on my shell pouch. I even still had some real cheap ammo ($) in the pouch This was a charity shoot I had donated a clinic for the auction. I didn't shoot very good after a 6 year layoff I probably didn't think I would. By the end of the 100 targets I was getting back on my game I think I ran the last two or three stations. My timing was really bad and my eyes were giving be a fit, with double vision but I had a great time. It was like in time when I first started shooting clays. (1972) I Had so much fun that I may at least go out to the club and shoot some targets. I doubt that I will ever shoot competitive again. This brought back some great memories shooting with old friends and students. When we finished, we went to one of our favorite restaurants and all of us and our (young) wifes join us. I have bee married nearly fifty years now.

Those were the fun good old days,

Mike McAlpine

I wish I could go back in time and relieve those days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:17 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 254
I just shot my first tourney in 2 years yesterday. After back surgery, I had to lay off for a while. I enjoyed it also. Rather do this than golf. I did not shoot very well either, (58) but the new gun was shooting 90/10 for most of the shoot. Guys who run the place brought me some cardboard at 4th to last station and we adjusted the gun right there. Next 3 stations were way better with 6 of 8, 7 of 8, and a run on last station. I had my shotkam on and looking at it at home showed so many shots over the top. I am hooked again!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:48 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
senoiaslim I'm glad you are having fun getting back into it. Just curious. If your gun was shooting 90/10 it was obviously shooting too high. What did they do with the cardboard?


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:30 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Posts: 460
pete blakeley wrote:
senoiaslim I'm glad you are having fun getting back into it. Just curious. If your gun was shooting 90/10 it was obviously shooting too high. What did they do with the cardboard?


I'm guessing the piece(s) of cardboard were large enough to serve as a makeshift pattern board target to shoot at for a POI check?

_________________
Author of:
- Understanding Shotgun Stocks for better shooting: Features, Fit, Fixes, Fables, and Facts,
- The Browning BT-99 Single Barrel Trap Shotgun.
both available direct from the publisher: http://www.gunshowbooks.com/


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:52 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:04 pm
Posts: 2877
I am 74 and just getting started in tournaments. I entered my first sporting clays contest last year in Tucson, Arizona and again this year. I enjoyed it.
I also entered my first skeet contest this year but I did not like it, as it is much to rigid for me. Too much standing in line and no conversation. I probably won't do another.


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:10 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 254
TrapshooterJeff wrote:
pete blakeley wrote:
senoiaslim I'm glad you are having fun getting back into it. Just curious. If your gun was shooting 90/10 it was obviously shooting too high. What did they do with the cardboard?


I'm guessing the piece(s) of cardboard were large enough to serve as a makeshift pattern board target to shoot at for a POI check?


You are correct. I then lowered the stock some.


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:18 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
That's great. I was just concerned that someone had told you by putting cardboard on the top of the comb the gun would shoot lower. I have seen well-meaning shooters tell others that in the past but actually that will make the gun shoot higher :wink:

BTW some cameras that fit underneath the muzzles give you a completely false impression of where you are shooting. Why? because they are correlated with a laser. Lasers are straight, shot doesn't fly straight. That type of camera was NOT used for any of the pictures in the Reading Targets book and that's why (as you have found) they are completely 100% accurate. What you see in the pictures is the correct bird/barrel relationship. :D


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:31 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2527
Sen,

That is great news. As I mentioned, I am probably going to start practicing again. As long as I can find some ammo that I can afford. I used to be in the shell business and normally would order between 500 and a 1000 flats per month. To get the best price you had to by at least 10 flats at a time. My markup was $5.00 a flat. I did this so our club, which I was the consultant for, this would let our shooters shoot much more and helped the club throw a lot more targets.

I once ordered some Rio Classic Game ammo. This was a less expensive load that had 1/ 1 16th ounce of shot. My cost in those days was $26.50 per flat. Yes you heard that right, so I sold them for $31.50 a flat. How would you like to buy shells at that price today. I bought 5000 flats of these and had to buy an extra sea container just to have a place to store them. I already had one container and could put 500 flats in my shell vault at the club. The shooters loved this shell. I bought and sold them until I left the club several years later.

Mike McAlpine


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:00 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 2080
Peter Blakeley , I really am surprised that with your experience you didn't know what to do with cardboard if your gun is shooting high.
Obviously you pile it up in the stand then stand upon it and shoot down on the target .
Me being a short a$$ ALL my guns shoot high because I have to lift the muzzles up for every target , including Rabbits.
You all have a nice now , mind the step and hold the rail when alighting from this rollercoaster.


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:48 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 254
pete blakeley wrote:
That's great. I was just concerned that someone had told you by putting cardboard on the top of the comb the gun would shoot lower. I have seen well-meaning shooters tell others that in the past but actually that will make the gun shoot higher :wink:

BTW some cameras that fit underneath the muzzles give you a completely false impression of where you are shooting. Why? because they are correlated with a laser. Lasers are straight, shot doesn't fly straight. That type of camera was NOT used for any of the pictures in the Reading Targets book and that's why (as you have found) they are completely 100% accurate. What you see in the pictures is the correct bird/barrel relationship. :D

Pete, I kind of agree with your assessment However, I am looking more at the shot cloud to where it travels. It was very obvious that the clouds were traveling above most misses.


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:50 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 254
Mike McAlpine wrote:
Sen,

That is great news. As I mentioned, I am probably going to start practicing again. As long as I can find some ammo that I can afford. I used to be in the shell business and normally would order between 500 and a 1000 flats per month. To get the best price you had to by at least 10 flats at a time. My markup was $5.00 a flat. I did this so our club, which I was the consultant for, this would let our shooters shoot much more and helped the club throw a lot more targets.

I once ordered some Rio Classic Game ammo. This was a less expensive load that had 1/ 1 16th ounce of shot. My cost in those days was $26.50 per flat. Yes you heard that right, so I sold them for $31.50 a flat. How would you like to buy shells at that price today. I bought 5000 flats of these and had to buy an extra sea container just to have a place to store them. I already had one container and could put 500 flats in my shell vault at the club. The shooters loved this shell. I bought and sold them until I left the club several years later.

Mike McAlpine


Wow Mike, I could not reload at those prices. So this week, I will set up the traps and shoot some presentations that I had trouble with. So much fun...


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
Salopian. Thank you for your sage advice. On a rare occasion, I have been known to miss rabbit targets over the top. I have decided that in order to correct that, I will carry a shovel in my shooting bag so that I can dig a hole at rabbit stations. This should make my gun shoot lower. I would think the SC rules would allow that, after all there are some who post on here that dig themselves holes all the time. Like the guy that proudly tells us he has learned to shoot with both eyes open...... and it only took him thousands of dollars in lessons fees and five years. :roll: Thank you once again for your advice. :D

http://www.peteblakeley.com


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:07 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
senoiaslim. I understand that's where the camera says you are shooting. If that's the case, please look at the article on fitting on my web.site and try to shoot your gun at a pattern plate so that you know where it is shooting. Then if what you say is correct, the misses over the top may be a simple head lift.

Also, let's say you take a lesson with an experienced coach. You miss a crossing shot and your coach tells you to:- "give the target 50% more lead" and you smoke it. But in that case, the coach is figuring out the lead for you, not you. It's the same with a camera. There are no quick fix gimmicks with this game, you must learn to read the targets by seeing an accurate shot placement picture. That's why I didn't use a barrel camera for the pictures in the book. :D


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:59 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 2080
Pete,
You should know that you are wasting your breath trying to reason with someone who has spent thousands of dollars and a lot of time trying to do something with very little help from their coach. Their coach should have identified the issue very early on. INTERESTINGLY ! There are many who can be correctly diagnosed with opposite eye to shoulder , but when asked to point straight at a target either with finger or gun muzzles they can, very easily and spot on every time , in which case to get them to change shoulders is doing them a disservice .


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:57 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
salopian. I agree. But when the coach insists that it is ALWAYS better to shoot with both eyes open, and over a period of time when the client doesn't get any better and his coach tells him:- "You're just not trying hard enough" and keeps taking his money, what can you do? That's why I give a money back guarantee on results. But there are some out there that think it's a trick. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:11 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 254
pete blakeley wrote:
senoiaslim. I understand that's where the camera says you are shooting. If that's the case, please look at the article on fitting on my web.site and try to shoot your gun at a pattern plate so that you know where it is shooting. Then if what you say is correct, the misses over the top may be a simple head lift.

Also, let's say you take a lesson with an experienced coach. You miss a crossing shot and your coach tells you to:- "give the target 50% more lead" and you smoke it. But in that case, the coach is figuring out the lead for you, not you. It's the same with a camera. There are no quick fix gimmicks with this game, you must learn to read the targets by seeing an accurate shot placement picture. That's why I didn't use a barrel camera for the pictures in the book. :D


Pete, I did use a crude pattern plate when in the middle of the tourney . I stepped off 16 yds and shot twice at the cardboard. Dead on vertical. Pattern was entirely above horizontal . I then raised AR to max. Shot way better after that and shotkam also confirmed pattern was lower. I do not know eye dominant got into this conversation, but I am a one eye shooter with more central vision than right eye dominates .


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:58 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 pm
Posts: 2123
senaioslim That's great, I'm pleased to hear you are progressing. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: First tournament in 6 years
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:02 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2527
I personally have my students to used both eyes open, because this lets their peripheral vision work for them on both sides of the gun. Also, shooting with only one eye kills you depth perception. Now with that said, I have found a few shooters in my career that couldn't shoot with both eyes open. Several had lost sight in one eye. The others had double vision and saw two barrels. I am sure there are other visions problems that keeps a shooter from using both eyes but for most of the shooters who have two good eyes, I think that in the long run closing an eye is not the way to go. There are many people that just say, I like one eye better. This is a person who probably will not be a good student. Their mind is closed to things they are not used to. There are also closed minded about getting better and many think they know far more than their coach.

Here is an example. While teaching a level I class in Mississippi I had a student that had a closed mind and resisted help. During the first afternoon, I teach my new students to give them an idea of what I do. I always ask these new instructors to tell be what kind of presentation that gives them the most trouble. This student, a man about 40, said that he had a hard time breaking a 50 yard target. I had him to shoot his method which was swing through and he broke 1 x 5. Not very good wouldn't you agree? Then I changed him to collapsing lead. When I have a student that can't break distance (Crossers) I always suggest this method. Well, lo and behold he broke 5 x 5 or a perfect score. I knew I had him then. When I ask him which method he liked the best, his reply was my method, it is easier. I couldn't believe my ears but I didn't try to change him but I did tell him that to be an effective instructor, he needed to be able to shoot and teach all methods. Since he was adamant about teaching only his method and nothing else, I FAILED him. He was really pissed off and told me that I didn't know what I was talking about. I then told him that an instructor had to be flexible and try new things with his students. I then explained that nearly all people who shoot a shotgun have a natural method so not everyone shoots swing through. He finally understood what I was saying and I let him take the class over at my nickel. He has made a very good coach since and the people that I have taught who said they could only shoot with an eye closed and that were open minded found out that many of the targets they had trouble with went away when they started shooting with two eyes.

Mike McAlpine
Former NSCA Chief Instructor

I am not dis agreeing with anyone hear. This is the way I teach and whait I think. {hs#




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