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 Post subject: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:06 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:58 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Western- Coyote Springs (AZ)
North Central- Northbrook Sports Club (IL)
Southeast- Cross Creek Clays (TN)
South Central- Providence Hill Farm (MS)
Northeast- Tied between Cardinal Shooting Center (OH) and Hopkins Game Farm (MD)

Dates are TBD.



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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:51 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2612
It seems to me that most of these clubs always are host club. Are these clubs the only ones that submit a bid? If so, why don't other clubs submit a bit. If the club is large enough and has a lot of experience in holding larger shoots, they need to bid. A major shoot like these normally make a lot of money. This is how my club, The San Angelo Claybird Association was able to become the club that it is today.

Mike McAlpine

I am NOT trying to stir the pot but it seems that several of these clubs are always chosen. This just may be a coincidence. Just asking. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:12 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:58 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Mike,
I cant answer that question but you are correct. Being out here on the West Coast, it seems like 1 club in CA can hold it, Clark County in Nevada (Where D.U. shoot is held yearly), Coyote Springs here in AZ and Ben Avery. You are correct in the same clubs put the bids in, I have 0 idea how they are selected.

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:14 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5949
I thought the delegates voted where the shoot is held?


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:07 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2612
Poly, Thank you for your reply. I was on the AC for ten years and most of the time there were several bids. I am not slamming these clubs because they are all capable of doing a great job.

True,

How do you think that some of these clubs were able to become so big? There are several answers but holding big shoots in one of them. No, I think that we (NSCA) need to spread the wealth around to other clubs so they to can grow just like these places. I can't remember a big shoot in California since Bruce B. held the US OPEN in 1996. He owned River Road in Gonzales California and did a great job, Several of my friends and wives attended. This is where I got my idea to build my "Attitude Adjuster" and make curling targets a part of the game. His wasn't a super large club and the attendance wasn't as large but he moved to Triple B and they became a big club. These are just some thoughts about other clubs getting a chance to grow.

Mike McAlpine

Again this reply is not intended to stir any pot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:13 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:57 pm
Posts: 19
I can not understand how the 2022 NE Regional is tied between Hopkins in Maryland and Cardinal in Ohio. According to Winscore, Ohio isn't even in the North East region. Besides that, I would think the regional location should be somewhat centrally located to get maximum participation. Hopkins is close to centrally located where as Cardinal is 7 or 8 hours away from everyone. Hopkins also did a terrific job last year hosting as they subbed in for M&M since M&M was unable to host due to COVID.

Hopkins needs to host next year!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:20 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:54 pm
Posts: 890
paulaner wrote:
According to Winscore, Ohio isn't even in the North East region.


Winscore is wrong.

http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2011/07/NSCA-Regional-Map-800.jpg

No judgment on which club should be chosen, but a lot of Ohio shooters travel east for the regional each year and surely would welcome the chance to stay closer to home.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:48 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:58 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Gilbert, AZ
One thing that Cardinal has (according to website) is 650 spots for RV parking. Being close to Columbus for lodging/food/entertainment plus airport for incoming flights does make it appealing for those that need it. I am giving this from my aspect here in Arizona and don't have a dog in this game :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:50 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 509
Location: Blountville, TN
Regionals have become rather large as compared to Zone shoots in the past. Multiple events and 500+ entrants are normal. It really does take another level of infrastructure when things get that large. Its great to see the shoots grow but it requires the ability to handle the numbers. A fumble on a big event can haunt a club for years.
bc

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Last edited by ebcjr on Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:38 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:57 pm
Posts: 19
Ok, Winscore is wrong according to your map. Ohio is as far west as you can be in the region which may deter others from attending. Hopkins is 1.5 hours from Washington DC, 4.5 hours from Pittsburgh, 3 hours from NYC, and 6 hours from Boston. Cardinal is 3.5 hours from Pittsburgh, 8.5 hours from NYC, and 11.5 hours from Boston.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:54 pm
Posts: 890
It's not "my" map -- it's the NSCA's, taken from the NSCA website.

Anyway, it's up to the delegates, not me, and I have no skin in the game as I don't live in the region and am unlikely to attend.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:58 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:05 pm
Posts: 19
I can’t speak to the other regions, but in the south central, Providence Hill was the only bid


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:35 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2854
Location: Central Maine
NSCA has expectations and parameters for regionals, US Open etc. any club that wants to put in a bid completes an application and basically lays out what they are planning to provide for events, amenities, hospitality and what parking and local dining and lodging will look like to support their bid.

Once NSCA has all bids for a region those go out to the delegates in that region to review and cast a vote. I am a first time delegate and the process was interesting. Each complete application was included and there is a lot expected of these facilities. Included is info on past larger events held there

These regions cover a lot of land mass and no matter what physical location is chosen will include considerable travel for majority of shooters to attend. My region is the northeast and there were two bids

Very few facilities have the space or resources or even the desire to take these massive shoots on. It’s a huge undertaking and commitment. The large events like this are important to our game and NSCA and having them go well is very critical. That is why there is a vetting process and past successes are a consideration though certainly not a requirement.

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Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
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Beretta A400 20 Gauge

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:20 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:58 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Gilbert, AZ
dpe2002,

Thank you on that great in-depth first hand knowledge on the selection process on the shoots! So in the tie for the NE region, do you all get together now and vote between those 2 clubs, or was it only those 2 clubs that put a bid in?

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NAS Whidbey Island, WA and USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71)
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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:58 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2854
Location: Central Maine
polywad6963 wrote:
dpe2002,

Thank you on that great in-depth first hand knowledge on the selection process on the shoots! So in the tie for the NE region, do you all get together now and vote between those 2 clubs, or was it only those 2 clubs that put a bid in?


There were just the two bids. Apparently not all of the delegates in the region cast a vote on the first time around. NSCA sent out a brand new ballot request to us with the appeal that all of the regions delegates place a vote. Votes need to be in by April 21.

I am not sure what will happen if there is still a tie. There is without doubt a tie breaker process that must come into play eventually.

_________________
CG Summit Sporting
Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
Browning Citori Crossover Target
Beretta A400 20 Gauge

NSCA 602398


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:01 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 am
Posts: 2612
eb,

You are sure right about this. I have set targets at a lot of clubs all over North America and occasionally something comes up (Throwing out a station) so I have to talk to the club management and the course manager about the repercussions of doing this. On several occasions, throwing out a station would have changed the entire winner list including the HOA on the main. It would have also changed a lot of the classes and concurrents too. I got myself into a crack with a club that wanted to throw out a station because of one shooter. This was on the most deceptive station on the main and everyone (Including me) missed a lot of targets. The President of the club and the course manager were afraid the this one guy would file a complaint to NSCA. I told them if they decided to throw this station out because this guy might file a complaint to NSCA but for sure, I WOULD file a complaint to NSCA. I talked to the people in charge and told them that they would piss off a lot of their shooters if they did and many of these people would never com back to the club. I have never set any targets there since, plus I lost a couple of friends. They didn't understand that I was really trying to help the club.

Mike McAlpine

By the way, this incident and several others like this are in my book. There is a lot more in it than just how to set a good course and how to beat the setter at his on game.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:59 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:05 pm
Posts: 321
TruePairLover wrote:
paulaner wrote:
I can not understand how the 2022 NE Regional is tied between Hopkins in Maryland and Cardinal in Ohio. According to Winscore, Ohio isn't even in the North East region. Besides that, I would think the regional location should be somewhat centrally located to get maximum participation. Hopkins is close to centrally located where as Cardinal is 7 or 8 hours away from everyone. Hopkins also did a terrific job last year hosting as they subbed in for M&M since M&M was unable to host due to COVID.

Hopkins needs to host next year!!!

Cardinal hosted the NE Regional in 2019, had a massive turnout, and did an absolute amazing job. They have a campground with tons of RV spots and a bunch of cabins on site as well. The area they have to utilize for different course is massive as well. It’s certainly a great option for the Regional. Personally I would love to see the NE Regional get into a rotation that includes M&M, Hopkins, and Cardinal getting it every 3 years.

Also, check Winscore again, OH is in their NE Region.


It's all relative..

The last few years of NE Regionals and attendance were:

2020 - Hopkins - 486
2019 - Cardinal - 591
2018 - M&M - 708
2017 - M&M - 751
2016 - M&M - 690
2015 - M&M - 644
2014 - M&M - 573

Unfortunately for Cardinal, They are on the western edge of the region, and outside the travel radius for a lot of shooters in the eastern half of the region. All you have to do is look at the attendees for the events in the east and west to see it.. The year it was at Cardinal, the majority of shooters were from western PA and Ohio, with hardly any participation from the eastern half of the region. When the events are on the eastern side of the region, there is almost no participation from Ohio.

To be fair to both sides, all the clubs did(do) a good job of hosting big events like the regional. The NSCA probably needs to give some thought to whether the current boundaries are the best solution, given how and where shooters travel in the Northeast..


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:41 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:29 pm
Posts: 613
As a former National Delegate I always tried to vote for what was best for the Region as a whole.
If all the delegates in the NE vote for the club that is physically closest, the shoot would never end up in Ohio.
In the Northeast we have a large population of shooters on both sides of the Region. Ohio has a large group of dedicated NSCA shooters and many of them are willing to travel east to support the Regional. It always seemed logical to me that they should have the chance to have the Regional close to home for them.
Some of you have wondered about why more clubs don't try to host a Regional. Please look up on the NSCA website what the criteria is to host. It is very limiting for most clubs. I don't believe there are more that 3 or 4 clubs that have the property or infrastructure to pull off what the NSCA mandates.
Please keep in mind that the clubs that have spent the time and money to build their facility to a level that allows them to host, must be supported by allowing them to host on a regular rotation.
Cardinal Center, M&M and Hopkins are all wonderful venues and more than capable of doing a good job. It would be great for the NE Region if we could allow them to host on a regular rotation. It would also be great if we could support another club that would be wiling to spend the money and time to build the required infrastructure.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:05 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:54 pm
Posts: 890
the Rev wrote:
It would also be great if we could support another club that would be wiling to spend the money and time to build the required infrastructure.


Given the size of these shoots and the requirements, there are not that many facilities that can even consider a regional.

The cost of building infrastructure to the point where a club can host a regional can be massive, and depending on the amount of work may not be recouped with one event. Previous hosts therefore have a head start on the process.

We have a few new regional hosts this year, including Covey Rise in Louisiana and Game Unlimited in Wisconsin. Hopefully the owners/operators of those clubs will decide that their efforts were worth it, and that shooters will want to return.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 NSCA Regional Hosts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:50 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:05 pm
Posts: 321
the Rev wrote:
In the Northeast we have a large population of shooters on both sides of the Region. Ohio has a large group of dedicated NSCA shooters and many of them are willing to travel east to support the Regional. It always seemed logical to me that they should have the chance to have the Regional close to home for them.


This is why I suggested that current NSCA delegates might want to work with the NSCA to reconsider the region boundaries. A few years ago when I was a delegate and had access to all the shoot data, we looked at where and how people shot in the Northeast. Outside a small group of dedicated shooters, most of the population that shoots registered targets will only travel 2-3 hours for a shoot. If you look at the winscore results from the Regional at Cardinal, you will see the same behavior.

Forcing the shoot into a rotation means that every few years, it will be outside the driving range of most of the region. To me that seems like a reason to re-evaluate the regional alignment, so more people can participate every year, rather than the current situation where a significant fraction of the region is outside travel distance every year and so doesn't have the opportunity to attend.

Edit: I should also add that having a rotation rather than a selection process introduces the likelihood for complacency. If the club knows they're going to get the shoot, they no longer have an incentive to be at the top of their game when they host the event. With the selection process, the delegates will penalize the club when they make mistakes. A little competition is a healthy thing for the event, IMHO.

Quote:
Cardinal Center, M&M and Hopkins are all wonderful venues and more than capable of doing a good job. It would be great for the NE Region if we could allow them to host on a regular rotation. It would also be great if we could support another club that would be wiling to spend the money and time to build the required infrastructure.


I can't speak for the whole region, but in my part of the mid Atlantic, there simply aren't any other clubs with available land to build the kind of facility that is required to host something as big as a regional. I suppose someone could create a new club, but that seems unlikely, given the costs. I would love to support and shoot at new venues, but we seem to be loosing clubs more often than adding them.




Last edited by jtw on Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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