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 Post subject: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:03 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 900
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
I was at a shooting range in Northern NJ today to shoot some sporting clays. After we finished, we were eating our lunch and watching a couple teenage boys getting some instruction on trap shooting. They were on pad 3 with the trap locked for straightaways. The boys were shooting way late at the targets as they were on the way down. We never saw either of them break a target, nor did they even try to shoot them sooner. We saw this guy giving them instruction and then he grabs a shotgun and proceeds to try to demonstrate how to do it and he missed both targets he attempted. He shot at them late too and he even shot twice at each target while starting from a low gun.

I said to my buddy, do ya think he would mind if I walked over there and tried to help those kids break a target? I wasn't sure if he was an incompetent Dad trying to teach his boys or just the worst paid instructor ever. We watched them for about 20 min and never saw a target hit. I felt bad for the kids. I'm sure I could have had them hitting targets.




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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:00 pm
Posts: 19
Good mentors are hard to come by. Introduce yourself, usually only takes about 3 seconds to know if your input is going to be welcomed or not...


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:21 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Posts: 4256
Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
never take for granted how hard it is to train someone.
I heard someone once say, 'who pastors a pastor?'
and...'whos my doctors doctor?'

instructors should have check ups. most that are paying for their license and lesson plan must.
those that are rogue instructors don't.
some instructors don't even have a lesson plan or outline.
sad indeed.
its makes all of us who try to practice and perfect' the art.....look bad.

ever have a bad college professor in a great class? same same.

the worst instructors ive seen are the ones who have nothing to give a student to study after the lesson. yelling high low left right in front behind is meaningless if all of it is forgotten.

most so called instructors make the common mistake of only giving a partial lesson unaware.

i'll share a trade secret.....before you instruct, you teach.
after you instruct....you coach.

anything short of that is incomplete.

_________________
Retired Military Aviation
Former NSSA All American
Former Member Navy Shooting Team
NRA Shotgun Instructor
Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:33 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Posts: 4256
Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
the absolute worst ive seen is the classic boyfriend girlfriend day out.
poor girls. body language tells it all. leaning back, head off stock, flinching, loading 5 rounds, rubbing the shoulder, yet on they go to make the boy happy and proud shooting his HD pump.
the gun industry sure loves those 2. they burn targets and ammo and buy cheap guns at walmart and do it for 1 weekend, and then go take up something else.


or until the next girlfriend comes along. lol.

_________________
Retired Military Aviation
Former NSSA All American
Former Member Navy Shooting Team
NRA Shotgun Instructor
Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:45 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:29 am
Posts: 282
Location: Port St Lucie FL
Perhaps he was teaching the "excuse for missing " part? When I was still shooting trap I recall that was an important element of the game, slow pull, wind took the bird, someone spoiled the rhythm of the squad etc, etc. New shooters must be grounded in the basics!


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:09 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 900
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
toptechX6 wrote:
Perhaps he was teaching the "excuse for missing " part? When I was still shooting trap I recall that was an important element of the game, slow pull, wind took the bird, someone spoiled the rhythm of the squad etc, etc. New shooters must be grounded in the basics!


Well then, they must have surely learned the lesson of not shooting when the target is out there 50 yards and dropping like a rock. Tho I'm not sure it should take them 20 min of missing to learn that lesson.

What I didn't see was any of the students changing anything in their attempt to shoot the target or "the instructor" showing them the correct spot to try to break the target. And - - - I really couldn't figure out why "the instructor" was demonstrating a low-gun technique to boys who were shooting high-gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:21 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:29 am
Posts: 282
Location: Port St Lucie FL
Sad that he likely discouraged new blood our shooting sports need for the future. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:02 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2150
Location: Attica, Mi
Back 12 years ago when I took over the shotgun venue, a gentleman who ran the shotgun at a close hunting club ask if he could come over and use our SCs course to coach a student. I said ok and went around with them. This fellow was suppose to be a Level 1 instructor in the NSCA [ at least I was told he was]. Being fairly new to SCs I was interested in how it was going to go. This poor guy wasted his money. All he was told is " you're shooting behind it " and then he would try to demonstrate how to do it. Never once did he show how to stand, where to look for the bird, where to hold the gun, where to break the bird, nothing. I thought damn, I don't know a whole lot, but I sure could have helped him more than this guy. I felt sorry for the guy putting out the money.

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Venue shotgun chairman of the LCSC and the LPSXSA


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:15 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 900
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
I hear ya Bladesmith. Yesterday I was shooting skeet with my buddies and one of my friends has a bad habit of lifting his head off the stock, especially on 8L. This shooter has paid for professional instruction in the past. Despite being told repeatedly he was lifting his head, he just couldn't stop doing it. He asked me if I would work with him on 8L after we shot our round. After watching him hit 1 of 10 and continuing to lift his head no matter how hard he mashed his face onto the stock at his hold point, I suggested that instead he should try to start with his gun just off his shoulder. My thinking is you can't pull your face off the stock if/while you are bringing the shotgun to your face. He tried it and hit 5 out of the next 6. He turned, smiled and thanked me.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:19 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:35 pm
Posts: 700
I see similar situations often. I will stand there and watch them miss targets all day and not say a word unless I'm asked. If you aren't asked to help mind your own business. And if you see me doing something wrong unless it's a safety issue please do not offer your advice unless I ask.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:41 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 900
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
PJR wrote:
And if you see me doing something wrong unless it's a safety issue please do not offer your advice unless I ask.


Not to worry, I'm thinking watching you miss would be kinda fun. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:17 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:21 pm
Posts: 13
It's always hard to teach someone a new sport, I always make sure it is for a short period of time and always start with safety then after 20-30 minutes time to go. I don't force it if they want to come back they will ask. Just like fishing, that's a lot of information but just try to make it fun too.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:50 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:35 pm
Posts: 700
twohigh wrote:
PJR wrote:
And if you see me doing something wrong unless it's a safety issue please do not offer your advice unless I ask.


Not to worry, I'm thinking watching you miss would be kinda fun. :lol:

Enjoy yourself but keep to yourself. Too many "experts" on the courses believe it is their duty to rush in and start delivering an impromptu lesson even though they weren't asked.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:56 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 6903
Location: Creston, Iowa
The best advise comes from someone accomplished and knows why they are successful. Someone that has experienced all the mistakes, error, and bad habits. Shooters that have found resolve and can recognize their error, then personally fix it the next shot. Not some self proclaimed coach with little shooting experience or success. Most coaches excel at selling themselves and self esteem, many are great volunteers and organizers. Few are accomplished at what they coach. It takes the big bucks to get both.

Maltz

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Have gun, will travel


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:45 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2150
Location: Attica, Mi
Whew, sounds like someone has a problem. Too bad some of us aren't there to help him. :mrgreen: And I do believe twohigh said " he was ask for help", he didn't offer if first. You need to read a post a little better. :D

_________________
Venue shotgun chairman of the LCSC and the LPSXSA


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:11 am
Posts: 441
Location: Cheyenne Wyoming
As Maltz said you want someone that has been there, done that and someone that has experience teaching.

I always get PO'd when someone says to me but, "Coach Self Proclaimed Hot Rocks" is a level 52 cerified instructor. Are you certified?

Drives me nuts.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:41 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 6:57 pm
Posts: 2648
Phil, you should say not yet, not enough targets in.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:02 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:11 am
Posts: 441
Location: Cheyenne Wyoming
Jim - that's a good one!


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:04 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 6903
Location: Creston, Iowa
The best coaching is not from me and I am certified with experience. I'm a technique guy, analytical and only relate to those sincerely interested in the clay target games. Have learned more from a Phil Kiner video than any individual coach. Learned more by being observant, watching and visiting with the best All Americans in trapshooting. Regularly keep notes and have for over 25 years.

Know what your needs are. From the basics to individual help with problems. All advise must be applied to you by you. There is no real magic, only self analysis and effort. The magic is in equipment selection, gun fit and POI setting. Really not magic, just feels like it when your pattern placement is center target, with choke enough to make smoke, you know why it all happened and can repeat the sequence over and over.

Trap and skeet shooters are by nature competitive perfectionists.

Maltz

_________________
Have gun, will travel


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Trap Instructor Ever
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:31 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:11 am
Posts: 441
Location: Cheyenne Wyoming
Maltz- would you text me your mailing address?
thanks phil




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