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 Post subject: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:34 pm
Posts: 29
Hello guys,
I was hoping for a little help here. I started shooting trap, 16yds, two months ago. All I had at the time was a 16ga O/U. Constant 16-17, high of 21. Well I got a lot of raised eyebrows when I hit the line with a 16. It is a field gun. So, taking some advice, I bought a barrel for my 1100, 30" with a ported extended modified choke. Still, a field gun. Now I'm doing 14-15. Sometimes less. Finally, someone said, field guns shoot straight, trap guns shoot high, cover the bird. I'll do that this weekend. Does that mean if I shoot a pattern target with both guns, holding the same spot, that the trap gun's densest shot pattern will be above the point of aim, and the field gun will be right where I aimed? I am getting extremely frustrated here. I have been holding right under the bird, and that is mostly when I miss. Sometimes I get a chip flying off. If I wait till the bird starts to fall, they explode. I'll assume because the are falling into the pattern. Unfortunately, on the line, I'm trying to decipher what I'm doing wrong and invariably really screw up. Not a good feeling. Secondly, can someone please explain what 60/40, 50/50, 70/30 patterning means? I am looking at the Weatherby Orion Sporting, with an adjustable comb. I am going to try one this weekend. A friend has it, and his scores went from 18-19, to constant 22-24 in three weeks. He shot his first 25 last weekend. Any help guys, any help at all will be most appreciated. I'm getting so frustrated that I'm thinking of taking up ping pong!




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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:42 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04 pm
Posts: 261
So many thoughts.

First of all, 16 gauge may be just as easy to find ammo for at the moment if not easier, so shoot whatever you like. Don’t worry about what anyone thinks.

One gun may fit you better than the other. Or they both may fit you badly. Or they both may fit great.

What your choke is labeled doesn’t tell you much about how it patterns. Your Modified choke may be sufficiently tight for 16 yard trap with the loads you’re using. Or it may not. A lot of trap shooters go with improved modified or tighter for 16s. Have you patterned it?

A pattern that is high, like 70% or more of the pellets hitting above where you see your front bead when you point it, is often considered to be advantageous for trap because it’s a rising target

Covering the target with the bead or waiting for it to reach an apex and drop, because you’re using a very flat-shooting gun, isn’t a good strategy. It might seem ok on a dead calm day when the clays are flying perfectly. On a gusty day with 25 or 30 mph winds at your back, you only get a fraction of a second while the rocks are moving upward predictably; after that they can be pushed up or down suddenly. (Usually down with a tailwind.) In my experience, shooters who move to and shoot the target quickly, and thus get it when it’s rising, are the ones who tend to not be affected by strong wind.

A lot of “field guns” are fine for trap because they can be adjusted with a shim to let you see more rib, so it patterns higher. That’s true of most modern auto loaders. I don’t believe it’s true of your 1100 but am not 100% sure.

A lot of guns labeled “sporting” may or may not actually have features that make them any better for trap. Sometimes a company adds a big shiny bolt handle and a 2” longer barrel to a lightweight inertia-driven auto loader better suited for hunting pheasants, and calls it a “sporting” gun.

I haven’t read a lot of stellar reviews of Weatherby shotguns.

It’s hard to beat a single shot BT-99 for singles trap. The new SKB Century III single barrels are also nice and a good value.


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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:39 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
Raising the comb will raise your point of impact. You can do this by having an adjustable comb put on any of your existing shotguns. Placing a non-adjustable comb riser (stick-on or slip-on) or if really like trap and think you'll keep shooting it regularly, buy a trap gun. The BT-99 as mentioned is a very popular and reasonably priced trap gun.

Yes, trap guns typically are set up to place the pattern above your point of aim. How much higher is a preference based on your preferred sight picture. I think 70/30 (70% of your pattern above your POA and 30% below) is a fairly common trap pattern. It's what I prefer, but I shoot with some guys who like them higher (80/20) and some who like them flatter (60/40). What you don't want to do is to shoot the targets late. Do what you need to do to get a shotgun that will shoot a higher pattern and train yourself to shoot the targets earlier, when still on the rise. That plus getting your holds, focus, and leads right will get you where you want to be.


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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:57 am 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04 pm
Posts: 261
Thinking about it more....

Step 1: Go buy a cheap roll of 36" or 48" wide craft paper. Cut several 3-4' long chunks and head to the range's pattern board. Take a marker and draw a clay-sized circle (or a bunny rabbit :lol:) in the middle of the paper and take a shot at close range like 20 yards with your 'clay' sitting on top of your front bead. Closer range because you aren't checking for pattern density here, but checking to see where your gun shoots. Repeat until you're confident you see a trend. (A single pattern shot is meaningless... it's easy to flinch when patterning.) Is it high? Low? Left or right?

Step 2: Go back to 35 yards and do a few patterns with your preferred trap load, because that's the distance you'll be shooting targets from the 16 line. If there are clay-sized holes in the center of the pattern, consider choking tighter.

Step 3: Read this.
https://www.damascusiwla.org/Remington_ ... s_2004.pdf

You're already on the way to building a good trap gun with that 1100 and new barrel. If it hits well left and right, and your only issue is "vertical", ask around to see if someone in your area can professionally cut the stock and make the comb adjustable. Key word is "professionally". Ask for names of former customers who can show you examples of his/her work.

Or maybe when you pattern it, you'll find that it's perfect and you don't need to do anything but practice more!


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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:02 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 7038
Location: Creston, Iowa
read again the previous posts......

Having coached at the college level still means working with beginners, or those that have little experience. At the same time those that are accomplished and purposely recruited. A vast difference.

Working with a new shooter. The first thing would be to check gun fit and mounting form. I'm a gun fit perfectionist and had to give advise, but very few would take it or spend the money to get their gun to fit. "Frustrating"

The next thing was patterning the students shotgun with their choices and point. School supplied the ammo and it was low cost promo ammo purchased by the college based on price. I liked to pattern both bench and offhand. The study was pattern placement and quality. Goal was to give the shooter confidence in the equipment.

Most beginner shooters would bring more open chokes thinking they must have bigger patterns for a better chance of breaking the target. Most guns shot low to way too low and most tried to aim or bead check both at the patterning board and while shooting moving targets. All approach was a failure waiting to happen. Then again.... after patterning and seeing shot placement, evaluating pattern density, thereto explaining the why and how to improve gave us a place to grow.

All beginners tend to aim or bead check during the shot, which results in losing sight of the target and its movement and shooting behind the target. Beginners are trying to see a sight picture of success to be able to repeat it next like shot. Seems to be no way to stop bead checking. It must be part of the human learning process, but once pointed out to never lose focus on the target during the shot the shot sequence seemed to come together over time. We are training our subconscious to pull the trigger at the precision of both physical movement and visual acquisition.

Don't get frustrated, realize its a learning process for both of you. Your conscious and subconscious mind, hand to eye coordination, visual focus as well as mental focus. Takes time and experience. Although, having knowledge and certainty makes the process easier.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:55 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Indiana
Good advice Maltz. One of the more difficult aspects of learning to shoot a shotgun is the concept that you shoot with your eyes. It takes practice and trust.


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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:38 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:34 pm
Posts: 29
Thank you very much.. .I do so enjoy trap. I had one of the old timers watch me last weekend. He said and I quote..."Watch the bird, don't worry about the bead, your arms will follow your eyes, and you'll stop shooting behind the target. Stop over thinking, you know what to do, just do it". I suppose he told me what Maltz just did. One thing he did say that I found to be absolutely 100% correct was, "follow through, don't drop the gun after you pull the trigger". The guys there are really nice. No one will judge you at all. If you shoot a 10, or a 25, doesn't matter. However, not many will offer any real instruction. I like to believe that its because their time is precious also, and they want to shoot. Butch, the old timer, is really nice, and more than one guy told me that I am the first they've seen him offer some sort of instruction to. I did see a Century 3 used at the local store, and I am thinking about it. There is a guy at the range that has the TT-15 combo. He told me to try it this Saturday. I think I will. I can't thank you guys enough for all the honest advice. Most of my frustration is from NOT knowing what I am doing wrong. If you don't mind, I may come back with more questions. Pretty sure I will actually. So for now I'm going to read that article. I'll let you know how it goes Saturday.. if you are interested........thanks again...


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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:25 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
mywrangler94 wrote:
However, not many will offer any real instruction.


Have you asked for help/instruction? I shoot both trap and skeet and find that help is offered more readily in skeet. Why? Because in skeet you have one person on the station and the others are behind watching. This means 4 sets of eyes on you and an opportunity to tell you what may have done wrong right after you finish shooting. In trap, (as you know) everyone is on a separate pad, eyes focused downrange, not on the shooter and there's no talking on the line. If you want help, go up to the friendliest good shooter and ask them to stand behind you while you shoot to see what it is you are doing wrong. Also, some people get very annoyed if you offer help that they don't want or are not ready to hear. Once you get snapped at for making a well-meaning comment, most will stop bothering.

It seems as if you are shooting with a great bunch of guys. Trap shooters have a reputation of being grumpy old men who whine about everything. There are certainly too many of those types around, but I too shoot with a group of friendly guys who are not overly competitive and who are really fun to be around. I avoid the clubs who have the grumpy old men, as do others, as participation at those clubs are dwindling while other clubs with the more friendly shooters are growing.


Last edited by twohigh on Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:09 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:28 pm
Posts: 5728
Location: Missoula, MT
Be a bit cautious as to who you ask for help. Watch a trap line sometimes, there is a lot of bad form out there. People develop one bad habit to offset another bad habit. You don't need that guy coaching you.

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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:36 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:34 pm
Posts: 29
They really are a great bunch of guys. This guy in particular seems to know what he's doing. Constant 24-25 in singles, and mid 40's in doubles. And he's in his late 70's. He holds very high on the house. A straight gun, and shoots two eyes open. He's very encouraging, and when I start to get frustrated, always has a kind word to say. He holds high so he's not following the bird. Minimal movement. And to be fair, it works very very well for him. I did try doubles last weekend. I'm almost embarassed to say I shot a 29......first time I ever shot doubles, and everyone there asked how I liked it. When I told em I only shot a 29, all they said was pretty dang good for first time. Maybe I should get the singles down before I move up...don't you think? But boy was it fun!!....I can't say thank you enough for all your input. I will take all the advice. It wont be wasted.. I'll let you all know how it goes Saturday.. if your interested.


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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:17 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:34 pm
Posts: 29
Hello again guys, took all the advice here. Went out Saturday morning, shot 4 rounds of trap. First two were trash. Then picked up my 20ga Zoli, and did two rounds both 21.... my best to date. Afterwards, one of the guys approached me and said "that gun fits you". After thinking a minute, I absolutely knew what he meant. I shoulder the gun and its just "right there". No adjusting. Unlike the other ones I was using. Taking all your advice sure helped. I didn't watch the bead, just the bird, I followed through, and most of all I relaxed....I had a great time. Best I had in a long time...Thank you guys.


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 Post subject: Re: A little clarification to a new trap shooter please....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:03 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 7038
Location: Creston, Iowa
Welcome...... target dust turns into addiction. {hs#

Maltz



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