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Which choke for singles trap @ 16 yard line ?
Improved Cylinder 4%  4%  [ 10 ]
Modified 30%  30%  [ 70 ]
Improved Modified 41%  41%  [ 95 ]
Full 24%  24%  [ 55 ]
X-Full 1%  1%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 233
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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:13 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 7038
Location: Creston, Iowa
The extra point is confidence. Knowing your sight pic and timing is center target allows your subconscious to repeat the sequence over and over. Also allows the shooter to find that zone of complete focus on the job at hand. So much focus distractions are no longer distractions. Concentration and vision at peak, everything seems to slow down including the target.

Its a wonderful thing to have complete confidence physical, mental and visual. This is advanced mental training in the trap game. Trap is 90% mental and requires work effort to do well. 100 straight are never easy even for those of us that frequently shoot them. We all seem to be flawed by human error. Stupidity or uninformed can be fixed.

Maltz



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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:40 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Houston, TX USA
Full disclosure, I don't shoot trap, but most of you knew that already. I'm just curious though. If you shoot trap with a tight choke from the 16 yard line in order to maximize your breaks, what would you use for a tough, distant, sporting clays target? I'm assuming you might also be interested in SC. I don't doubt what you are saying, but don't see how to get a similar result on a much more distant target if you are already using IM or Full on closer targets. Don't you run out of constriction? Please forgive my naivete. If I am making a fundamental mistake about trap, I would appreciate your clueing me in. Perhaps the target is so far downrange by the time the shot is fired that the term 16 yards is actually misleading. I guess what I am really asking is what is a common distance to the target when it is actually struck if it is thrown from the 16 yard line? Did I just answer my own question? :idea: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:04 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2495
Location: Central NH
I'd say a common distance is 30-35 yards from the 16 yard line.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:12 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Houston, TX USA
painter* wrote:
I'd say a common distance is 30-35 yards from the 16 yard line.

Thanks. That explains a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:37 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Actually, I have and do shoot sporting. I have shot registered competitive clays in the late 80's and early 90's. Still shoot'em occasionally, but would rather shoot 5 stand. It is the same as trap when related to confidence, but to break the target well with more face showing allows for a more open choke. 15 yard middies overhead are skeet choke. 25 yard on edge needs IC or mod. The point is to be able to see the target being centered well, then able to repeat the sequence, recognizing what timing and lead necessary to keep the target in the center of the pattern.

When your placing shot on center target, the gun seems forgiving as we make slight errors or variance each shot. If your chipping and chunking you have no idea if your on the pattern edge or too open to break good scores. Soon to score a "0". The shooter will end with better scores in any hand to eye related sport if they can recognize peak performance. Its easy to see when bating baseballs, tennis, archery, etc. Hard to see mistakes in shotgunning clay targets. Choke selection can offer a measure of your shooting. Shooter will learn how to center targets if they can see the result of the shot made.

The common perception of more open choke, better chance breaking the target does have merit for those without skill. I have never met anyone shooting clay targets that didn't wont to improve. Or learn how to improve scores and averages. At some point in most competitive shooters ten year they realize that just breaking a lot of targets or practicing a lot they will never learn how to get past average. They continue to make the same errors and have the same bad habits they have practiced for years. They need to learn how to place shot better and recognize personal bad habits. Then find a way to fix those habits and realize they can minimize mistakes through effort. Just take knowledge and self analysis. Takes a gun that fits the shooters size and a POI that is set to place shot center pattern to where visually focused.

The choice is just have fun and be happy with performance or understand and work at shooting better. The short cut is gun fit and POI setting. All the clay games are one target games. You win or lose by one target even in shoot offs. Every target is important.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Houston, TX USA
Maltz, I appreciate your last post.

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:56 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:52 am
Posts: 11
bigrobbierob wrote:
He used chipping as a general term to convey breaking. No extra points in ink balling vs. chipping/breaking.


Thank goodness he used one word to mean another. I was worried someone had made up a story to bolster their opinion, then posted it on the internet.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:06 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:51 pm
Posts: 276
Location: PHX, AZ
Smush20, you do understand the game is how many you break, not how many you ink ball? I take it you subscribe to the thought of ink balling your targets has some sort of psychological effect on the folks you are competing against.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:36 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:52 am
Posts: 11
bigrobbierob wrote:
Smush20, you do understand the game is how many you break, not how many you ink ball? I take it you subscribe to the thought of ink balling your targets has some sort of psychological effect on the folks you are competing against.


All I know about trapshooting is that all the "world champions" go around asking people if they'd rather chip 25 than smoke 24. Every champion there has ever been must have asked tens of thousands of shooters that question. Or a lot of people are just making it up. That's all you should take from what I've posted.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:40 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:32 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Versailles, Kentucky
I would guess that this is a subject that has no correct answer as this thread has been going for 10 plus years now.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 3124
Location: North Central West Virginia
I've only shot trap a couple times, but I used IM and it was crushing the targets. I guess if I would move back, then I would go to F.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:00 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2960
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
LawDog324 wrote:
I would guess that this is a subject that has no correct answer as this thread has been going for 10 plus years now.

That's pretty much the long and short of it ^.

Because most shooters break a singles target at between 32 and 35 yards, there is no clear "best" choke. That distance is exactly at the point where a Modified choke starts to lose ideal pattern density and where a Full is just starting to open up enough to give you a good chance of putting 4 or 5 pellets on the bird for a solid break.
An Improved Modified type choke is probably the best compromise....and any choke you choose to use IS a compromise. They always are.


Last edited by mudpack on Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:25 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Posts: 6869
"The common perception of more open choke, better chance breaking the target does have merit for those without skill."

This.....is where I am hanging my hat.

I get too many spastic responses that miss by several yards to "build confidence". I am more leaning towards just getting it close and getting the trigger pulled than I am to getting it perfect. And I am a little slow to pick up the target. So I shoot 1 oz loads, IM and hope, There are often a couple of targets a round that it looks like should have broken that did not. But... there are those I know I was not centered on that did break also.

I often shoot with people who make ink dots at about half the distance I break my targets. I just stand there and admire it.

For me it is the choice of 20 chips or 15 ink dots, not the 24/25 choice that everybody bandies around.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:46 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2704
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
maltzahn wrote:
Actually, I have and do shoot sporting. I have shot registered competitive clays in the late 80's and early 90's. Still shoot'em occasionally, but would rather shoot 5 stand. It is the same as trap when related to confidence, but to break the target well with more face showing allows for a more open choke. 15 yard middies overhead are skeet choke. 25 yard on edge needs IC or mod. The point is to be able to see the target being centered well, then able to repeat the sequence, recognizing what timing and lead necessary to keep the target in the center of the pattern.

When your placing shot on center target, the gun seems forgiving as we make slight errors or variance each shot. If your chipping and chunking you have no idea if your on the pattern edge or too open to break good scores. Soon to score a "0". The shooter will end with better scores in any hand to eye related sport if they can recognize peak performance. Its easy to see when bating baseballs, tennis, archery, etc. Hard to see mistakes in shotgunning clay targets. Choke selection can offer a measure of your shooting. Shooter will learn how to center targets if they can see the result of the shot made.

The common perception of more open choke, better chance breaking the target does have merit for those without skill. I have never met anyone shooting clay targets that didn't wont to improve. Or learn how to improve scores and averages. At some point in most competitive shooters ten year they realize that just breaking a lot of targets or practicing a lot they will never learn how to get past average. They continue to make the same errors and have the same bad habits they have practiced for years. They need to learn how to place shot better and recognize personal bad habits. Then find a way to fix those habits and realize they can minimize mistakes through effort. Just take knowledge and self analysis. Takes a gun that fits the shooters size and a POI that is set to place shot center pattern to where visually focused.

The choice is just have fun and be happy with performance or understand and work at shooting better. The short cut is gun fit and POI setting. All the clay games are one target games. You win or lose by one target even in shoot offs. Every target is important.

Maltz


That pretty much sums up my feelings about choke selection. "Choke for smoke". When I get smoke, I know I hit the bullseye. When the target only breaks, I know I wasn't perfectly on the target. Your brain gets better feedback with a tight choke.

If you are of the "better to get 25 chips than 24 inkballs" mentality, then at least practice with a tight choke. Most of the AA competitors I have watched tend to consistently shoot inkballs with an occasional chip instead of a lot of chips with an occasional inkball and an occasional miss. A chip is a miss that you got you credit for a hit.

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:18 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2960
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
B.L.E. wrote:
maltzahn wrote:
The shooter will end with better scores in any hand to eye related sport if they can recognize peak performance....

True enough. And when I inkspot a singles target with my Modified choke, I know for a fact that I've centered that sucker.

B.L.E. wrote:
A chip is a miss that you got you credit for a hit.

Sooooo, you really DO get style points in trap!


Last edited by mudpack on Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:19 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:58 pm
Posts: 1439
Location: Oklahoma
It may depend just as much on what ammo you're shooting, as what choke!

Here are a few of my pattern numbers for your consideration.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

40 YARDS / LM
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 251 (64%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 260 (76%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 264 (70%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 216 (58%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 277 (68%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 267 (64%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 67%

40 YARDS / M
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 292 (74%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 272 (79%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 285 (76%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 236 (63%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 293 (72%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 302 (72%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 73%

40 YARDS / IM
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 295 (75%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 255 (74%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 288 (76%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 260 (69%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 295 (72%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 307 (73%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 73%

40 YARDS / LF
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 294 (75%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 271 (79%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 289 (77%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 263 (70%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 313 (77%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 309 (74%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 75%

40 YARDS / F
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 288 (73%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 275 (80%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 299 (79%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 272 (73%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 321 (79%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 321 (76%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 77%

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:51 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:01 pm
Posts: 142
Hammer1 wrote:
What is the best choke for singles trap at the 16 yard line for regular amateur shooters, i.e., those that hit routinely in the 15 to 22 range and have never broken 25 straight ?

My recommendation for you since you are fairly new to the sport would be Modified. Usually 20 thousandths in constriction.


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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:34 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 16302
Location: Cadiz,Ky
I shoot a Full choke at everything. Love the look of SMOKE!-----wish I saw it more often !!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:42 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2960
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
driller wrote:
I shoot a Full choke at everything. Love the look of SMOKE!-----wish I saw it more often !!!!

If you went to a Mod or IMod for singles, you might. :wink:

One of the fallacies in trap is that if you smoke the clay, that means you centered it.
And it's not necessarily true.

All it takes is watching Neil Winston's slo-mo videos on "reading breaks" and you'll see that most of what old timers believe about breaks and dust balls can be thrown out the window.
What they conclusively prove is that you cannot tell where you placed the pattern on the target by the way the target breaks. If you try to 'read breaks', you'll be wrong 80% of the time.


Last edited by mudpack on Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Which choke for singles trap @ the 16 yard line ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:23 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:52 pm
Posts: 674
Location: Michigan
mudpack, I agree with Neil Winston but in reality when there's smoke there's no need for reading breaks :wink:




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