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 Post subject: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 82
Mostly on the title. "Cost limited" I try to shoot up to 40 games a month. I would like to up that even higher but the range fees and ammo at this point is already a car payment ( new car would be nice j/k). It is worth paying that much to shoot, but I am absolutely looking for a way to put the time in that I need to to get good and still keep the costs as low as I can.

I was going to get a used manual thrower and convert it to a foot launch trigger (I would still have to load and cock it by hand) and I think I can get it for under 45-75, it is a little beat up, But I am pretty handy. So I am sure I can make it work unless I need to make complicated load bearing parts from scratch. And I shouldn't have a problem accessing land I can shoot on.

I was also going to volunteer time at my club as a RSO/maintenance (get a small discount, I already help them out putting stuff away cause I typically stay till close, so not looking to just mooch a discount).

I already reload and once I get in my groove and really start buying in bulk I should have ammo costs under 4.60 a box I think.

So that all said. Anything else you all can think of to help me lower my over all costs? It really crept up on my and surprised me :).

Thanks!




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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:12 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:40 pm
Posts: 108
If you're looking to buy a cheap trap, for $400 dollars you can buy a promatic pigeon. I don't know if that's what fits what you are looking for but its going to be significantly better than a manual machine.

The big discounts to the game are finding ways to lower the cost on:
- Targets
- Shells

Standard targets can be found for ~$.09 per target depending on where you are, how many you buy, and where you are getting them from.

Shells - I would love ANYONES suggestion on good cheaper practice shells.

I'm currently paying ~$.25 per shell and ~$.35 per target. So, every bang is approximately $.60.
If you can get shells for closer to 5 dollars per box ($.20) and targets at $.10, you have cut your costs in half!
(does not include trap, that's highly variable in cost. I guess once you shoot enough it is paid for.


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:41 am 
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You didn't say what you reload, but using less lead can get the cost down a lot.

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:17 am 
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kalabaddon wrote:
I was going to get a used manual thrower and convert it to a foot launch trigger (I would still have to load and cock it by hand)


If you're looking to at least semi replicate what the Club thows you'll be very disappointed with the manual trap you mentioned. As you know Clay shooting is not a low cost past time.
I have 4 Traps here at home and here's a pic of the main 2 I use. Granted wasn't cheap but lets me shoot/practice for Sporting :D

Image

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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:11 am 
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Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
oneounceload wrote:
You didn't say what you reload, but using less lead can get the cost down a lot.

I agree, shot is the single most expensive component of a reload. Lately I have been using 3/4 ounce loads for practice. You get 533 loads out of a 25 lb bag of shot. With one ounce loads, a bag is only good for 400 loads, with 1 1/8 ounce loads you only get 355 loads out of a bag.

Those 3/4 ounce loads smash targets if you center the pattern on the bird but you can't be sloppy with your aim, which is why they are good practice loads.

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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:08 am 
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Absolutely! I have been using 3/4oz since they came out with the wad (Claybuster); I tend to choke up 1 .005 constriction tighter and get great results - and no sore shoulder from shooting all day is a nice bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:40 pm
Posts: 108
oneounceload wrote:
Absolutely! I have been using 3/4oz since they came out with the wad (Claybuster); I tend to choke up 1 .005 constriction tighter and get great results - and no sore shoulder from shooting all day is a nice bonus.


For someone who has 0 components or expertise in reloading, do you think reloading is still a cost saving measure? If so, what do you think the round count would have to be to make back your initial investment in the reloading supplies?


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:21 pm
Posts: 20
zxcvbnm wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
Absolutely! I have been using 3/4oz since they came out with the wad (Claybuster); I tend to choke up 1 .005 constriction tighter and get great results - and no sore shoulder from shooting all day is a nice bonus.


For someone who has 0 components or expertise in reloading, do you think reloading is still a cost saving measure? If so, what do you think the round count would have to be to make back your initial investment in the reloading supplies?


If you could get shot less than $50 for a bag
Primers $27 per K
Powder $28 lb
HAZMAT Fee
Wads $12
Hulls free pick them up

Roughly $72 per flat or less depending on shot cost


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:14 am 
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Who buys primers by the 1K, wads by the bag, and powder by the pound? I buy 8# jugs, wads by the case and primers by the sleeve of 5000. My 3/4oz reloads cost me right at $3.50/box or $35/flat.
GETTING components right NOW can be an issue. Look for a used MEC single stage for starting - make sure it has the auto-primer feed as that really helps speed things up to 4-6 boxes per hours loaded and boxed up.

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:48 am 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
I don't think getting a clay machine is a good thing cost wise. it wont allow you to practice the actual game on a bonified layout.
all youll be doing is shooting and expending ammo, but what would you be practicing? follow me?
what kind of gun you own?

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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:01 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 6:57 pm
Posts: 2673
If you want to practice trap, you should consider a Terry Jordan wall chart. There are also a couple of computer driven simulations that put a target up on the wall to be shot by a laser insert.

However, the cheapest way to practice is to make every shot count by not standing there on a squad shooting at random targets.

Approach it like professional golfers. Set the machine on one target presentation and then shoot that presentation 5 times from every post. Do a straight, L&R quarter angles and L&R hard angles.

If you are having problems with a particular target(s) stand there and shoot it 25-50 times until you grove your move to that target.

Yes, it can be boring but to you want to improve or just screw off with your buddies?


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:35 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:21 pm
Posts: 20
oneounceload wrote:
Who buys primers by the 1K, wads by the bag, and powder by the pound? I buy 8# jugs, wads by the case and primers by the sleeve of 5000. My 3/4oz reloads cost me right at $3.50/box or $35/flat.
GETTING components right NOW can be an issue. Look for a used MEC single stage for starting - make sure it has the auto-primer feed as that really helps speed things up to 4-6 boxes per hours loaded and boxed up.


Yeah no on buys primers 1K at a time, but before the last gun scare years ago you could buy 5K at a discount compared to buying 1K at a time like $126 for 5K, I haven't seen any deals on them in a long time. I also buy powder in 4lb and 8LB kegs, primers, bullets because I reload 38SC, 40, and 223.

You can get shot in group buys from some clubs and wads by the case.

I was giving an example so someone could get idea of what it cost to come into the hobby without going all in. I've seen more people looking into reloading and components our hard to find.

I'd like to see your cost breakout to get it down to $35 a flat. Maybe I can find efficiencies.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
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The biggest break is in using 3/4oz of lead. That cost was from my previous component purchase. With my last primer and powder purchase, my cost is now $4.20/box, $42/flat.

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:30 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 82
Jim Tyner wrote:
If you want to practice trap, you should consider a Terry Jordan wall chart. There are also a couple of computer driven simulations that put a target up on the wall to be shot by a laser insert.

However, the cheapest way to practice is to make every shot count by not standing there on a squad shooting at random targets.

Approach it like professional golfers. Set the machine on one target presentation and then shoot that presentation 5 times from every post. Do a straight, L&R quarter angles and L&R hard angles.

If you are having problems with a particular target(s) stand there and shoot it 25-50 times until you grove your move to that target.

Yes, it can be boring but to you want to improve or just screw off with your buddies?


How do the wall charts work, How much room in my house do I need for one?

I have already been doing repeating targets, Right now most of the practice I need is still at station 4-5, I have been getting much better at it and will use the spare trap range to just run a box sometimes at just those stations on hard rights. Will be doing it again now and more then before since I am committing to trying to get really good at trap.

I don't mind repeating a target over and over, I can be very patient.

bobski wrote:
I don't think getting a clay machine is a good thing cost wise. it wont allow you to practice the actual game on a bonified layout.
all youll be doing is shooting and expending ammo, but what would you be practicing? follow me?
what kind of gun you own?


Makes sense, Practice exactly what you do, Vs something kinda like what you do which could give bad habits.

Currently I have a Mossberg 500. Stock except a comb riser. 28 inch barrel with rib. With the riser it is about 65%-70% high POI, but it is a soft riser and even with it taped in place it moves around a bit so I have mount issues with this gun.

Short term I have an 1100 I am configuring for trap and should be using by mid next month.

Long term plan is a Browning in 1.5 years or less if I can wing it. I have borrowed both high end Beretta's and Browning's at my range and having shot a Browning no more then 6 times before I was able to score my first 25 with a borrowed gun. ( less then 2k total fired even in my 500 at the time) so it was a surprise to mt to run them! They really fit me.


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:15 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 10:12 am
Posts: 111
Location: Iowa
are there any powders that are significantly cheaper to load with? Most seam to be within a few dollars of each other per pound. $21 - $25. I haven't settled on a paticular load to get down to grains per shell for pricing.


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:52 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:40 pm
Posts: 108
kalabaddon wrote:

How do the wall charts work, How much room in my house do I need for one?

I have already been doing repeating targets, Right now most of the practice I need is still at station 4-5, I have been getting much better at it and will use the spare trap range to just run a box sometimes at just those stations on hard rights. Will be doing it again now and more then before since I am committing to trying to get really good at trap.

I don't mind repeating a target over and over, I can be very patient.


http://www.learntrapshooting.com is his website. He has a very long and informative thread on trapshooters.com. He is also super accessible if you want to talk to him.

With that being said, it is a wall chart (a picture on a nice vinyl sign material) and requires a little bit of imagination for it to work. But once you "shoot" a few hundred targets on it, it really does wonders to your trap game.
kalabaddon wrote:
Makes sense, Practice exactly what you do, Vs something kinda like what you do which could give bad habits.

Currently I have a Mossberg 500. Stock except a comb riser. 28 inch barrel with rib. With the riser it is about 65%-70% high POI, but it is a soft riser and even with it taped in place it moves around a bit so I have mount issues with this gun.

Short term I have an 1100 I am configuring for trap and should be using by mid next month.
Long term plan is a Browning in 1.5 years or less if I can wing it. I have borrowed both high end Beretta's and Browning's at my range and having shot a Browning no more then 6 times before I was able to score my first 25 with a borrowed gun. ( less then 2k total fired even in my 500 at the time) so it was a surprise to mt to run them! They really fit me.


I think getting a personal trap is the best thing you can do for your game. I wish I had the ability to have one.


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:53 pm 
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john54 wrote:
are there any powders that are significantly cheaper to load with? Most seam to be within a few dollars of each other per pound. $21 - $25. I haven't settled on a paticular load to get down to grains per shell for pricing.


Depends on what you are reloading.
Powder Valley has IMR Red on sale for $119. per keg.
It mimmick's Red Dot and anything you can reload with Red Dot you can with IMR Red.
If you don't mind something different then you can go to Graf's and try one of the
Vectan Powders like A-S, 206V or GM3 depending on your payload.
They go from $13.50 to $15.60 per 1.1 lbs.


https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/ca ... oryId/3512

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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 82
Jaspo01 wrote:
If you don't mind something different then you can go to Graf's and try one of the Vectan Powders like A-S, 206V or GM3 depending on your payload.
They go from $13.50 to $15.60 per 1.1 lbs.


https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/ca ... oryId/3512


I my self do not mind trying new powders at all. Why would someone avoid these? Are they corrosive and need cleaning soon after, or just dirty, or just different?

Even after the shipping and haz this can beat my price locally for promo if I buy over ~10 containers.


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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 pm 
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Last edited by Jaspo01 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to practice on the cheap?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 pm 
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No. It's because they are a European powder. And thus unfamiliar to reloaders
who are set in their ways with powders they have used for decades. Like the Dots or 700X.
Nobel Sport Vectan was imported during the powder shortage.
Desperate reloaders like me tried it and found it to be excellent, available and affordable.
However it seems it is no longer being imported. My favorite Vectan's were Prima SV, A 24, and AS.
Prima V, Prima SV and A-24 are long gone now.
A-S is the only one still available and once it's gone it won't be back unless there is another shortage.
But what remains has good reloading data available on Graf's site for you to download
and decide what's best for you. Plus Graf has lower cost Haz Mat and shipping cost
than most.
There is good 12ga. data for 206V, A-S and GM3.



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