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 Post subject: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:23 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:59 am
Posts: 213
Location: arizona
I think that one of the best ways to enjoy clay target shooting is doing it with a vintage old smoke pole. There are lots of quality and safe guns out there that are quite suitable for modern ammo.

Model 12's, 31's and such are great pump gun choices and can be found with trap stocks or even skeet if you search deep enough.

If you chose the vintage single look at the Parkers or very classy Ithaca's. SxS's that are were originally field guns can be just stocked too low for comfortable trap but great for sporting or birds. Damascus barrels CAN be very safe choices if checked out and matched up with black powder or low pressure loads. One ounce loads is my max even in steel barrels, respect your guns age!

Another bonus is saving some money as a lot of these guns are getting beat-up value wise with the collector markets--you can get a REAL trap gun for less than a modern one.

I will add a note about triggers, most vintage trap guns have nice crisp trigger pulls. My Remington Model 10-D is very honest to point and pull.
After 25 years of release trigger trap I have completely changed over to pull triggers-I shoot doubles with a Remington FE with double triggers (still working out the details).




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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:12 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 6:57 pm
Posts: 2673
Well, my Perazzi is from the '80s but my squad buddies are from the 40s.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 4051
Location: Mid-Missouri
I've long thought trap shooters were the luckiest gunners when it came to finding bargains.

Interchangeable chokes are a big demarcation point between high-priced used guns and bottom-feeder bargains. People just aren't willing to pay as much for fixed choke guns. Essentially, choke tube vs. fixed is a non-issue for trap guys since they're always shooting long birds. Also, it turns out that the longer-barrel guns that are so desirable these days almost always have tight chokes.

Go on gunbroker and you'll find tons of perfectly good old guns that are appropriate for trap that can be bought relatively cheap. Old fixed choke Brownings and Japanese SKBs can routinely be found for $800 or less. If you're into side-by-sides, it's a buyer's market for 30-inch barrel, mod/full 12-gauge field guns. Sterlingworths, Mirokus, LC Smiths, East German Sauers . . . there's all sorts of nice old guns that can be bought for stupid-cheap money.

The situation isn't much worse for skeet and clays shooters. You just have to pick out a 30 inch barreled gun and have the chokes opened to something useable. A IC/Mod, LtMod/LtMod or Mod/Mod gun will handle just about everything you'll ever see on many sporting clays courses and do the job at skeet "if you do your job." Interchangeable chokes are overrated. You can find bargains if you're willing to accept fixed chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:28 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2259
Location: Attica, Mi
I've got three 1894 FEs. Not too much to work out - pull the trigger you want. Usually the rear trigger is used - less chance of the trigger guard hitting your second finger. I've also found pulling the back trigger first on doubles helps. I then " stretch " for the front trigger keeping my hand back. Or a glove is a simple solution. I've come to like the old SxSs with lots of drop. You keep your head up and mount more to the jaw - not the cheek. Light loads help. The barrels want to recoil up causing the stock to hit your cheek. My normal loads are 3/4oz, my magnum trap loads are 7/8oz. I don't think for a minute I could shoot a round of 1 1/8oz loads. Yes you're right. There are a lot of deals out there, especially those with Damascus barrels. For chokes I've left my FEs as bought - MOD/Full. My other dozen SxSs I've opened up to LM/LM, some SK/IC. I think chokes are way over rated. LM will do about anything. JMHO

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:31 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Posts: 4413
Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
all my guns are old! even now!
and when I think of all the old guns I sold in my lifetime.....my head spins.
which do miss the most?
my old iver Johnson super trap sst vr.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 71
I am going to shoot clays in the a.m. with one of my Super X Model 1’s


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:14 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 82
Just shot a 1920's M12 Trap at my local trap range and scored 21, the gun fit great and shot great! All 4 misses where expected. 2 hard rights at station 5 which I am still working on getting down, 1 when I had a reloading issue and rushed, and 1 when I mismounted the gun and rushed.

It was also in beautiful condition!


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:45 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 1988
If it weren’t for old guns I wouldn’t have any guns at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:22 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:17 pm
Posts: 249
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex
You’re “talking my language.” I primarily use a BT99 for trap, but I usually take some old guns with me made in the 30s & 40s. I recently shot a round with a single shot made in the early 30s with a fixed full choke. I scored well for me, a 21. I truly enjoy shooting the old guns.

One disadvantage is you are not shooting trap with just one gun, which I believe is best for your game. Without raised ribs, it’s not the same. But to me the disadvantage is outweighed by getting to use the old guns. They were made to shoot, and I think they should fulfill that purpose.

Furthermore, depending upon the age of an “old” gun, I find them to be well made, typically with solid steel and sometimes the parts are hand fitted. Each old gun is different and should be checked by an expert for safety. I know you should respect their age, but they may not need super pampering (within reason of course). But I use 1 ounce loads when I have them. When I don’t, I use my regular 1 1/8 ounce loads. Of course, Damascus metal should use only special loads because there is increased risk of injury to the gun and the shooter.

I find shooting old guns is a hoot. I love doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:55 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Western Tampa, FL
I know this. If I was lucky enough to have a good conditioned single barrel trap gun made by Fox, Ithaca, L.C. Smith, Remington, or Lefever; it would get a regular workout in the manner for which it was intended. Of course, the proper shells would be Federal Paper Champions or the like. Strong, wonderfully made guns that will still shoot exceptional scores in the hands of a competent driver.

This would be despite the very high value of some of them nowadays. If used with the appropriate ammo, they will be fine as they were made to take a lot of shooting. Saw an Ithaca graded SBT being used at Vandalia many years ago and know that regardless of how his owner placed; he won the Most Cool award!


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:48 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 2034
Location: Indiana
I shoot my 1956 Model 12 90% of the time. The other 5% with a 1938 Model 21 Trap. No reason why these old shooters won’t work as well as high rib guns. After all, they were built for trap shooting!


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:36 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:20 pm
Posts: 8966
Location: /pol/
I'd LOVE the opportunity to shoot trap with a muzzle loading shotgun. Might even be fun to give a blunderbuss or musketoon a try as well! I can almost smell the burnt black powder as I type this and think about it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:53 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 4970
Location: Miami Florida and The Republic of Panama
kalabaddon wrote:
Just shot a 1920's M12 Trap at my local trap range and scored 21, the gun fit great and shot great! All 4 misses where expected. 2 hard rights at station 5 which I am still working on getting down, 1 when I had a reloading issue and rushed, and 1 when I mismounted the gun and rushed.

It was also in beautiful condition!

Shooting M12 Traps is like cheating.

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Vote For The Diamond In The Rough, Not the Polished TurD.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:22 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 82
Jaspo01 wrote:
Shooting M12 Traps is like cheating.


Sure felt like it :P When ever I pick up and shoot a real trap gun instead of my Mossy 500 my averages go straight up.

It fit me so good that I did not even notice the recoil, but it is the same weight as my 500. but the 500 beats me good with the 1 1/8 1145 loads cause of how poorly it fits!


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:33 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 3404
The Rattler wrote:
I find shooting old guns is a hoot. I love doing it.


Shooting trap with an old Model 97 on a hot summer day can be a challenge. The heat waves coming off the ribless barrel can create a mirage distorting the view of the bird. You have to decide if what you see is travelling above, below or to either side of the bird's true position!

DF

Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:20 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:04 am
Posts: 684
Location: Midwest
1964 Ithaca 37,
Remington 31TC, 1948
Winchester Model 12, 1914 , made into trap model my Simmons in the 60's
Can't hit chit with the Remington, shoots way to high for me and I don't want to mess with it.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:04 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:59 am
Posts: 213
Location: arizona
Shooting your Old Gun is even more fun over Old Trap Machines!
The Ford Model A axle trailer was our ranch welding rig for years, It got wobbly for the road so I repurposed it!
Pull pipe with a Cline electric motor and a 1524 Wobble trap (with triples no less)

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:11 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Western Tampa, FL
I like it!


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:33 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:59 am
Posts: 213
Location: arizona
Remington Model 1894 FE
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 Post subject: Re: Shooting "Old" guns
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:30 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2259
Location: Attica, Mi
The last FE I bought, Cabela's didn't know what it was or they would have ask more. Someone had almost buffed the " F grade trap gun " off the left barrel.



_________________
Venue shotgun chairman of the LCSC and the LPSXSA


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