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 Post subject: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:48 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:16 pm
Posts: 30
I have been thinking about a trap-specific shotgun. To me this has always meant a gun that has a much higher than normal and possible adjustable rib and a monte-carlo or adjustable stock.

Oddly, I have seen so called trap shotguns that perhaps only have one of these features or in a few older cases, neither.

So does anybody have a nailed down definition?
Just curious
Thanks




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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:15 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 2027
A parallel comb is also often considered a trap stock.

Sometimes the word trap denotes a level of wood grade or ornamentation.


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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:43 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 6983
Location: Creston, Iowa
Trap gun, trap model, trap wood. The trap gun has been developing for over one hundred years. When the first stock was designed to place shot higher for a rising clay target. First was the wood stock with parallel comb a bit higher than field, then the combs that were cut to add hardware for adjustment vertical and later horizontal for cast adjustment. In the early 1980's the adjustable rib was designed to raise POI by bead height. Under single barrels, top single and O/U barrels later.

In todays adjustable gun market we see the same adjustments that were designed for American trap, developed on other other clay target discipline guns including skeet and clays. Much is about marketing and sales, but for those of us that have learned gun fit and POI setting. We would never go back to the days of a trap stock on a standard frame and barrel. We seek perfection in POI setting, to center shot patterns on clay targets. We have found how comfortable a fitted stock is and how it has improve our shooting being able to mount the gun the same place every time. Keeping our back sight (dominate eye) from moving around during the shot changing the perfected pattern. Less felt recoil, less cheek or shoulder bump by delivering the recoil straight back with the bore and equal on the top of the pad as to the bottom.

Gun fit and POI setting is as important to all shooters in all the clay target disciplines. So.....its no longer adjustable features just for trap, but a complete transition of the gun manufacturers to design specifically for shooters needs in size and shape as well as preferred target game.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:16 pm
Posts: 30
Thank you for the write up. It is very concise and maybe the moderators should pin it.


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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:04 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2920
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
Since many modern sporting clays guns have the same adjustability features as does a dedicated "trap" gun, it's hard to define what a "trap" gun is by looking at its features.

I'd guess a trap gun is a gun that has been set up to shoot trap targets to the shooter's preference.
There are some guns that are truly trap guns, since they would not be suitable for any other clays or game shooting. The BT-99 and it's ilk come to mind.

Broken down to it's most simple definition, a trap gun would be a gun that you only shoot trap with....even if that gun is an off-the-shelf-1100. It's only complicated if you choose to make it so.


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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:49 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:49 pm
Posts: 115
mudpack wrote:
Since many modern sporting clays guns have the same adjustability features as does a dedicated "trap" gun, it's hard to define what a "trap" gun is by looking at its features.

I'd guess a trap gun is a gun that has been set up to shoot trap targets to the shooter's preference.
There are some guns that are truly trap guns, since they would not be suitable for any other clays or game shooting. The BT-99 and it's ilk come to mind.

Broken down to it's most simple definition, a trap gun would be a gun that you only shoot trap with....even if that gun is an off-the-shelf-1100. It's only complicated if you choose to make it so.


+1. A trap gun is a shotgun you shoot trap with. Period. Yes, it's true that guns with high ribs and adjustable parallel combs are designed, principally, to shoot trap. They are designed to enable the shooter to stand erect with a "head-up" position, and to be able to adjust the gun to shoot high thus enabling the shooter to be able to "float" the rising bird above the muzzle never losing sight of it. The degree to which one floats the bird becomes a personal preference.

All that said, If a person prefers a flat ribbed gun (International/Olympic trap guns are generally flat ribbed), but also wants to float the bird, he/she can do so with a gun that has an adjustable comb. Just raise the comb to see more rib and float the bird as high above the muzzle as desired. This depends on how high one raises the comb.

Finally my point...if a shooter wants to shoot trap, they can do so with ANY shotgun...to include a pump gun, semi-auto, high rib, low rib, mid rib, 12 gauge 20 gauge, 410, you name it. Any one of those is a "trap gun" as far as that gun's shooter is concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
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Location: Creston, Iowa
The TRAP gun design has developed for over 100 years based on competitive shooting. Even low level competitive or organized events like local leagues tend to inspire shooters to look for some kind of magic in equipment. Even more incentive to excel at higher levels of registered shooting. For someone that lives the trap game like I do, making changes in guns and looking for that magic seems to never end and cost more than most would consider sane. Trading up, selling and buying the next gun based on what we think would improve our game. Always looking for that one extra target in a game that is won by said one target every event. My guess this would be consistent in other clay target games as well.

Shoot what you have for fun and entertainment, but get interested enough to be competitive and get ready for the ride. I do this when shooting occasional skeet, sporting and 5-stand. Use one of my trap guns, but have shot sporting competitively using guns designed for the game. There is a difference actual, personal or perceived.

To answer your question on sanity...... presently own and shoot 3 Kieghoff K-80 combos. Why 3? Heck I don't know, just can't say no to a good deal.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:25 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2678
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
mudpack wrote:
There are some guns that are truly trap guns, since they would not be suitable for any other clays or game shooting. The BT-99 and it's ilk come to mind.


I've shot skeet singles with my BT99 and did pretty good. It's probably not a terrible dove hunting gun either. No safety? No problem! Just carry the gun broken open with a shell in the chamber. Closing the gun is every bit as fast as taking a gun off safety.

Then on the other hand, you CAN shoot trap with a hunting gun.

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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:58 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:40 am
Posts: 244
Location: Houston, TX and Fairfield Glade, TN
I recently bought a Remington 870 Express TRAP model. What makes it a TRAP vs the old standard 870?

Longer barrel than standard at 30 inches
Monte Carlo Stock
Higher rib (shoots 70/30)
Heavier than standard??

It seems that one could take a standard 870 and add the rib; the stock, and..maybe..extended chokes.. to get close to this model.


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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:21 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2920
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
B.L.E. wrote:
I've shot skeet singles with my BT99 and did pretty good. It's probably not a terrible dove hunting gun either. No safety? No problem! Just carry the gun broken open with a shell in the chamber. Closing the gun is every bit as fast as taking a gun off safety.

It's still a trap gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:45 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
I shot trap today with a full choked, field grade, Winchester Model 12 converted to a trap gun. What about the conversion makes it more suitable for trap? The field stock was replaced with a monte carlo stock to raise the comb such that it now shoots a 70/30 pattern rather than the 50/50 pattern it shot with it's field stock. I also added a vent rib just because I'm used to them on my shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:27 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 6983
Location: Creston, Iowa
Rib taper or angle regulating the POI, originally was a trap feature and benefit. Many shooters have a personal preference in sight picture. A common preference is "stacked beads" preference, leaving POI to be set. The lower the bead in relationship to the height of the back sight (dominate eye) over looking the barrel increases POI height. For those of us that have developed the speed and trigger timing to require 90% to 120% high POI or in some cases even higher. We still want that preferred sight pic with the stacked beads. Shazam, the adjustable floating rib on trap guns and now adjustable + elevated ribs on universal platform shotguns are here to save the day.

Most of these features were developed for those shooters that understand gun fit and POI setting. Not only understand but have complete confidence in our knowledge and ourselves. There are many new and experienced shooters that do not have that confidence, but buy an adjustable gun. YA.... they look cool and could have potential. Although the shooter has waisted their money and caused problems for their shooting and scores if they do not take the time to understand both the gun and themselves in relationship. They must learn how to set the POI to center targets to their timing, visual and reaction.

This is not rocket sicience, but takes a little effort on your part. Those that are too lazy or just can't find the time. Do not buy that full featured adjustable gun. There will be a lot of frustration and slump time if you do.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Define a trap shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:01 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:58 pm
Posts: 19
Anything from a Remington 870 pump to a Perazzi High-Tech will get the job done. I have both brands and still suck some what at Trap but love the sport.




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