ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:21 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff KX6 Special vs ??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:19 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2960
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
maltzahn wrote:
Mudpack
Since I know who you are personally, Larry. Its easy to research your trapshooting experience and its also easy to see your just bloviating having little experience. Better just stick to C-cars to have cred.

Maltz

Steve,
Of course you know who I am; I had PM'd you several years ago and told you. ( I offered, in that PM, to bury the hatchet with you and invited you on a duck hunt with me.)

Does knowing who I am prove my opinion (that the Kreighoff is an un-attractive gun) is not valid?

My opinion on the aesthetic characteristics of the Kreighoff is just that: my opinion. Feel free to convince me that I'm wrong, but don't use ad hominem tactics in the attempt. You aren't the only person worthy of an opinion.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff KX6 Special vs ??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:50 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 7038
Location: Creston, Iowa
Your quote Larry.....
"By definition, actual recoil is determined by gun weight, muzzle velocity, and ejecta weight. Does the Kreighoff have immutable characteristics that give it an advantage in any of these three components of recoil? The answer should be obvious.
Of course, personal fit has a bearing on felt recoil and here again, the K-gun does not have intrinsic advantages over any other brand in this regard, since it is a personal thing and can be readily changed by the user should he/she so desire."

Unless you have owned a KX-6 and shot it, the answer is not just blind science, but design. Get a BT-99 or any Bgun to weight the same as the KX-6S and shoot'em to compare.

You should try a good trigger some time. If you do.... get an average before and after to compare. Could be a two target improvement. POI is based on timing. Trigger, handling and follow timing as well as stock and rib settings. That is the non scientific part, human related and hard to understand for some.

Buying quality, reliability and performance is in style these days. You should go to a real trap shoot, say the KS state shoot in June just down the road from ya. See what avid trap shooters are carrying to the line. You will see many youth shooters using 15000.00 dollar shotguns as well as us old guys.

I will leave the rest unsaid realizing those without experience only have bloviation.

Maltz

_________________
Have gun, will travel


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff KX6 Special vs ??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:54 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:21 pm
Posts: 770
maltzahn wrote:
Your quote Larry.....
"By definition, actual recoil is determined by gun weight, muzzle velocity, and ejecta weight. Does the Kreighoff have immutable characteristics that give it an advantage in any of these three components of recoil? The answer should be obvious.
Of course, personal fit has a bearing on felt recoil and here again, the K-gun does not have intrinsic advantages over any other brand in this regard, since it is a personal thing and can be readily changed by the user should he/she so desire."

Unless you have owned a KX-6 and shot it, the answer is not just blind science, but design. Get a BT-99 or any Bgun to weight the same as the KX-6S and shoot'em to compare.

You should try a good trigger some time. If you do.... get an average before and after to compare. Could be a two target improvement. POI is based on timing. Trigger, handling and follow timing as well as stock and rib settings. That is the non scientific part, human related and hard to understand for some.

Buying quality, reliability and performance is in style these days. You should go to a real trap shoot, say the KS state shoot in June just down the road from ya. See what avid trap shooters are carrying to the line. You will see many youth shooters using 15000.00 dollar shotguns as well as us old guys.

I will leave the rest unsaid realizing those without experience only have bloviation.

Maltz

What you quoted from Larry is correct...its basic physics. He even correctly distinguishes between calculated recoil and felt or perceived recoil and how fit can affect perceived recoil.
You even agree with him when you mention stock fitting and stock design, which relate to fit. You both clearly disagree on how good triggers need to be, but even the best of shotgun triggers I've felt are a far cry from the triggers I have on my custom 1911s, much less my Pardini SP Olympic-quality sport pistol, or the Toz-35 free pistol I used to have (trigger pull measured in ounces), so I can see the reasoning in mudpack's opinion. Other than trigger quality bit, given how much you agree with him, why are acting like such a jerk toward him? Are you sure you're on the right forum?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff KX6 Special vs ??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:46 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 7038
Location: Creston, Iowa
This is not about pistol or rifle triggers. There is no comparison in need performance for a moving target compared to still. I shoot a release, but it matters little if pull or release, the gun must fire exactly when the little spark in your subconscious says its time based on handling and sight picture. Matters less if the shooter is using their conscious mind to fire, but conscious shooting is tiring and soon your subconscious takes over if for no other reason than to protect the owner mentally.

Important is the shot must leave the barrel when expected or a substantial flinch will result. Executing a jerky uncontrol move in the targets direction. We all know what that feels like, all of us that actually shoot clay targets. New shooters start by trying to put this timing into the point. They slowly learn how to deliver shot patterns to the moving target. At the same time the shooters subconscious is establishing said sequence and developing skills to center each target offered. Trap, skeet, sporting each of us develop this timing on every target speed, angle and distance.

Changing guns, new triggers, balance and weight must be learned, but from a baseline already established. we on look for confidence in the new platform. Targets stay the same. Anyone only focused on the science will never develop peak performance. Not that science is irrelevant because part of this timing is related to equipment. From velocity, payload or ammo related issues. Gun fit, handling, timing is as much about human interaction with static science.

I have a long list of reasons not to care for mudpack from both websites noted, but the main one is being a self important contrarian on purpose and never establishing credibility.

Maltz

_________________
Have gun, will travel


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 1casual, Bing [Bot], Cimarron Red, dsohmer, elpato, EricB, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], gunut 1, John H, md2020, ohio mike, polla1983, sigma_pete, SteveID, strut71, Stuck-N-Kali, Supertex1978, tray999, Woodymac


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice