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Your buckshot field experience

67K views 162 replies 37 participants last post by  MissSkeeterRetriever 
#1 ·
I'd like members to HONESTLY share their actual experiences with buckshot on deer. My issue is some folks claim one #00 is all that's needed to kill a deer, well I guess if it hits the brain- okay- but the ballistics for one pellet is pretty low. I have other folks tell me if three or more pellets hit the lungs, that will usually drop a deer in about 30 yards or so.
Off hand, I would think the tightest pattern possible is what would work best, a whole load hitting the lungs. NOW I realize your aim has to be better than hoping a pellet or two from a wide pattern hits a vital spot.
And...I notice a lot of buckshot hunters opt for a neck shot rather than lungs- like turkey hunting.
And...I realize nothing is etched in stone. I'd appreciate some honest real life buckshot information. Thanks to all. 8)
 
#52 ·
that would be a good idea to get the rifled choke and switch shells when going to your stand but I hope you find a dog group to hunt with. I've never hunted with dogs (because of laws in my area) but I think it would be similar to the way I hunt now, it is very enjoyable. A lot more exciting than hunting from a stand or blind, I get really bored in the bow season but in the firearm season my heart is almost always pounding when you stand there and you hear the howling in the distance, slowly getting louder and shots going off all around you and then a deer comes running out in front of you and you put the bead on it and hopefully drop it. Also, make sure you switch chokes you don't want the rifled choke in when you use buckshot.
 
#53 ·
Right now in Florida there is an om going trend to abolish dog hunting for deer. As a pilgrim I thought it was common manners to abide by the ways of my new state, I never could figure out people that move some place and then expect all the folks in the area to change. Any way I would be out stand hunting but on occasion bump into the dog hunters. One time I was in my tree and a doe came out into a clearing and kept looking behind itself, I figured a dog must be off after it. This doe walked around a stump, hopped over a log, ran right under my stand and was off. Ten minutes later a dog appears. I thought the dogs ran in the general direction of the deer but this dog walks around the stump, hops over the log, etc. exactly the same tracks. I then had dogs trying to get into my vehicle, dogs that were chasing does and when they saw me- giving me a dirty look that I hadn't shot the deer, etc. etc. In any event as time passed I got to sort of like the dogs and then I got talking to some of the dog hunters. It is a completely different thing. When I hunt doves I call it dove "shooting" because you are on a planted field. There isn't any "hunting" about it, but I still enjoy a good dove shoot. All the guys keep scores, etc. Lots of shooting, plenty of action, never bored. The deer and dogs is somewhat similar, I hope the tradition continues, It would be a shame to outlaw it completely.
 
#54 ·
I agree, it would be a shame. I never got to hunt deer with dogs because it is illegal but before it was, that was the only way my family hunted deer. It became illegal though, because other land owners did not like the dogs going on their property. You would think they would be happy when it happens because the dog could push the deer to the land owner. It would be nice if it became legal again but I don't think that will ever happen. Just wondering, how many deer can you shoot? and is there a limit on the amount of shells you can have in the gun?
 
#55 ·
In Florida it is a deer a day in most areas. The season is Mid-Nov to Early Jan so about 50 days. Some guys shoot a lot of deer. The only shell/magazine limit I think is 5 on a semi-auto rifle.
I also shoot sporting clays. When I started I was always hitting the "rabbits" and then found out a lot of folks had trouble with them. One reason I'm thinking the buckshot on deer might work.
As I said, the big negative is that certain areas of Florida might have a "prairie" or open area and there is that one in a million chance of seeing a great buck off at 150 yards. Folks say that will never happen but a few days after one year's season I was just hiking, no gun in hand, and I saw a good buck (By FL standards) right in an open area feeding- couldn't believe it.
So all is a trade off. I'll probably try a little of both ways. Right now I have a lot of buckshot loads to test fire. I have been picking up scrap cardboard boxes and have flattened them and glued two together to make a target. I can take the first shot and draw a line through the holes so each cardboard might be good for 2, maybe 3 test shots.
You read about that one in a million shotgun that puts all the buckshot in a hand sized group at 40 yards. I thought that would be ideal but now I'm thinking that at 40 yards such a small group could completely miss a running deer if your aim was a little off. Obviously you don't want a bad pattern with a 6' pellet spread but a small amount might be okay. I think my goal might be 4-5 consistently hitting a pie plate and the rest of the load within a 30" circle. If I can get that at 40 yards I'd be very happy.
So, I have No.1, No.0, No,00. No.000 in Remington, Winchester, Federal and then IC., M, and F on the chokes- I'll be a busy boy for sure testing it all. I hope it proves worthwhile.
BTW- I did all this a few years back for Quail. Assuming my shooting skills stayed the same by doing all the work and finding better patterns I began downing a lot more birds (skeet 1 choke and #8 shot) and the only thing that changed was the ammunition.
 
#56 ·
Wow, someone could shoot a lot of deer if they wanted. I hunt in Northern Ontario, Canada. The season in my area starts the first of october til mid november for bow, the one week of firearms and then one week after that a week for muzzle loader. We can only get ONE tag, either antlered or antlerless. With the antlered tag you can only shoot a buck with antlers longer than 3" I think, and the antlerless tag you can shoot a buck, doe, or fawn.
 
#57 ·
I used to live up north, actually went on a spring bear hunt in Southern Ontario a million years ago. Canoe trips up to James Bay (before cell phones and GPS). Some of these guys in the deep south that hunt in groups, each may kill 6-10 deer a year and they look at each other's deer and how they were taken so after a few years they have seen 100 plus buckshot deer.
Some of these guys seem rather unethical in the respect a deer that runs off isn't cried over much. A northern deer is appreciated like it is an elk in the respect it is a valuable trophy whereas in some southern areas deer seem little more appreciated than over sized rabbits.
I promised I'd share the good and bad. One guy this morning said he killed a deer at 20 yards with #4 buckshot, hit it 5 times. 5 x 41 pellets per shell=205 hits. I wonder if there was much left to eat. He also said he shot a deer at 35 yards that ran off into the swamps and he never found it. He wasn't that positive on buckshot but I don't think he spent too much time patterning the loads. I may be wrong on that. I am thinking that buckshot used in conjunction with dogs means the dogs can track down a deer that runs far. Maybe the deal is if you use buckshot, combine it with dogs.
 
#58 ·
By the way, I noticed that dogs seem legal in Ontario. Before I moved south I had this idea in my head that hound hunting big game was more of a southern thing. I was surprised once here that the woods are sometimes too thick and in some areas the whole place is flooded swamp and there are humps of dry land about 10' across scattered in this area where the deer bed down. It is actually sort of refreshing to just slosh around as it keeps you cool (I wear sneakers) but using a dog in water is pretty worthless. The best terrain is dry forest lands. There is also a lot of that habitat around but to be honest there were plenty of areas in the north that seem ideal as far as running dogs and 30 yards shots.
 
#59 ·
Yeah, dogs are legal in most areas of ontario but where I hunt dogs were used by a lot of people and the land owners that didn't have dogs didn't like them going on their land and so it became illegal there. You don't need dogs when using buckshot, but it wouldn't hurt. I think the respect is because people in your area can shoot deer like rabbits, and we can only shoot deer like elk and the season is very short, so chances of getting a deer are lower than yours.
 
#60 ·
Well, if it any consolation Florida is rapidly changing. Lots of anti-hunting types moving in. Who knows the future. Enjoy things while you can. Maybe I'll end up in Alaska.
I'm going to spend some time patterning different loads and maybe try hand loading. I have only read a little on the hand loading and it is more complicated than with bird shot.
I shot a good buck (by FL standards-8 pt.) with a 30-30 at 37 yards. It was crossing a grown over logging road. On that type situation I've seen deer at 70 yards crossing such areas but they are invariably does, it seems a buck will simply not cross an area that open. In any event my goal is to figure a 30 yard shot where all the pellets are evenly distributed in about a 24" circle. A lot of local hunters use No.1 buckshot because the 3" 12 gauge shell will hold 24 pellets and they claim on 130 lb deer it kills as good as No.00.
 
#61 ·
I've never used no.1 buck or 3" shells, always 00B and all of my shotguns only use 2 3/4" shells. Also wondering what is the heaviest deer shot around there. You said people talking about 130lb deer, is that average weight. We never really weigh our deer but I looked to see what the average weights of whitetails are in my area, here is a link to the information I was reading.
http://www.whitetaileddeer.ca/howbigare ... etails.htm
to get all the pellets in a 24" circle would be a great pattern, let me know how you make out. If you want to get into reloading and don't want to spend too much, take a look at the Lee Load All, I bought mine for about 70$ cad or there are lee classic loaders. Probably the cheapest but it would take longer to load.
 
#62 ·
Davems - I don't usually get involved in arguments like this one, but I admire your tenacity in trying to find out what you want to know, and I don't like to see someone treated rudely for asking an honest question. I have some experience with buckshot and deer and will be glad to share it. I grew up hunting in the 60s and 70s using buck shot on dog hunts. It was the way my dad hunted, and it was the only way anyone in our area hunted when I started. I killed 12 deer with buckshot and saw many more killed. I also saw a lot that were wounded and lost.

By the time I was 21, I had made the decision on my own that I would not hunt with buckshot again. I had a .308 by then and found it to be much more reliable for taking a deer. I did not use buckshot again until a few years back a friend asked me to test a new load he was developing. It utilized 5mm 18g/cc tungsten shot, and I was glad to try it for him. A couple of test shots showed that it shot very tight patterns at 40 yards. I shot a doe from a tree stand with it at 30 yards and it dropped her instantly. All the shot completely penetrated her, and a front leg was sheared. Here is a pic of what it did:



One poster in this thread said he would give up deer hunting if limited to buckshot. I wouldn't; I'd develop a 3.5" load using this shot and use it in my SBE with a Holosight on it. I'd test it to determine the max range at which I felt it would kill the deer 100% of the time, and limit shots to that distance. I don't know what that distance would be, but I think that 50 yards would be very possible. I think the tungsten shot might really extend the range of buckshot and make it far more lethal than anything you can buy. Since you are thinking of reloading, pm me if you are interested and I'd be glad to tell you what I know.

I have shot the 18g shot for 8 years now at turkeys, and it is miles better than anything you can buy. Of course, you kill turkeys by penetrating the Central Nervous System, (CNS), and deer are usually killed by the shock of a bullet taking out the vital organs. When a gobbler stands up straight, it is about 16" from the top of his head to the very base of his neck. That's a lot of CNS and gives the hunter a big target. Most turkey hunters like to count the number of hits they get in a 10" circle and consider 100 hits to be the max range of that gun, and I've found thats a good and reasonable standard to use. I think that you are trying to find a standard like that to use for buckshot and deer? It seems to be a very good quest to me to find that standard, and I commend you for trying to determine exactly how far you can shoot a deer and be sure of recovering it.

I would agree with most of the posters that you are better off to use a rifle if you can, but there are some places where they are not allowed. I hope you can determine a good answer for your question. If you go the route of the 18g shot, I think you would be better off to focus more on the CNS or bone structure of the deer than you normally would with lead buckshot. With the load I used, aiming at the front shoulder at 40 yards would not only put shot in the lungs and heart, but it will instantly break the deer down so it can't run. And even at that range, a shot to the neck would drop it just as quickly.

The test cited on page one of this thread has little to do with deer hunting with modern loads. The writer even said:

>>>>I brought some Wolf 00 Buckshot to the class.

As you can see, it holds 9 - 00 pellets and they do not have a filler to cushion the shot.

This tends to flatten the soft lead pellets and deform them as they go down the barrel.

This will open up the pattern more than other, better quality loads.

But I used this load because I had to shoot a lot of them, and they were cheap.

I figured they were good enough for practice, and they did just fine in that application.<<<

Trying to apply this test to your question would be like testing dove loads and saying a shotgun won't kill a turkey past 15 yards. I think it is setting up a Straw Man that one can easily knock over. Modern buckshot loads in guns with specialized chokes are capable of doing far better than the guns and loads of the 60s that I used, and the load of this test. And the idea that a 4" pattern should be considered the max range is one with which I disagree very strongly. My turkey loads have around 600 shot in them. I usually hit the turkey in the CNS with only 20 or 30 of them. My "kill" pattern at 40 yards is about 16" wide. To date, I have not killed any other turkeys, dogs, or hunters with the shot that miss the turkey, but I am very careful about when I pull the trigger, just as any hunter should be.

I think hunting deer with buckshot has enough issues that we can just honestly confront them. I guess some people see how buckshot has indeed been misused and just want to discourage all hunters from using it. I certainly share that desire to see every animal killed cleanly, but I think there is a place, a very small place, for the use of buckshot in deer hunting.

Let me say it one last time - I think that if you can use a rifle you should use a rifle. If you are hunting in a place that requires buckshot, do a lot of pattern work and then don't shoot one past the range that you are sure will make a clean kill. I know you want to do that, so I hope you can determine exactly what that range might be. Good luck!
 
#63 ·
Coosa, I completely agree. I said about using buckshot on deer at 75 yards at most under certain circumstances but, if I new most of my shots were at that range I would bring a rifle. The only reason I would shoot a deer at that distance with buckshot is if it was a wounded deer. But other than that, at that distance a rifle would be best. And at close ranges where there is likely only fast shots available buckshot can work great.
 
#64 ·
coosa said:
I would agree with most of the posters that you are better off to use a rifle if you can,

Let me say it one last time - I think that if you can use a rifle you should use a rifle.
You can always use a rifle. It might be a muzzleloading rifle, it might be a shotgun with a rifled barrel, but you can always use a rifled barrel.
 
#67 ·
>>>Who in the world is "they"? It must be a real comedy act, to try to talk about how "deadly and effective" buckshot is and then flip and shrilly call it "safe" at the same time.<<<

Dang. I thought you were a writer? If you are, you can look at my sentence structure and see that in my first sentence I referred to "hunting clubs here in the south". In the second sentence I used the word "they" to refer to the same group. I don't think the strictest English teacher would say that I was unclear. If you want to see some examples of such clubs, just do a simple internet search. Though most of these clubs don't have web sites, some of them do, and you can read for yourself that their rules limit hunting to buckshot on their dog drives.

I haven't seen any of them describe buckshot as "deadly and effective". That is just another Straw Man that you have built. And I saw nobody "shrilly call it safe" except you, as you continue to build Straw Men. I am surprised to see you taking this approach to a discussion. I've read a lot of your work in the past and respected it. On issues I knew little about, I thought I learned something from your writing. Why are you resorting to such tactics in this thread? As I said, buckshot has enough problems without exaggerating them.

And as for the safety issue, your own comments should show that buckshot is much safer than a rifle on dog deer hunts. If I am gonna be hunting with another guy 200 yards away, I'd much rather him be armed with buckshot than a rifle. Based on your own comments, its pretty unlikely that a buckshot pellet will even still be going at 200 yards, much less carry enough energy to kill someone. With any rifle, that's a different story. I don't wanta get shot with either one, but at 200 yards I would take my chances with buckshot. Whether its true or not, that's the reasoning the clubs use, and they have been doing it for many decades.

Whether it is effective or safer or anything else, there is no denying that some places limit the hunter to buckshot. Not only do clubs have the restriction, but there are also landowners who mandate it on it their land - they don't want somebody getting hit with a bullet from a rifle a mile away. Its easy for many of us to say we simply wouldn't hunt in such a place, but there are hunters who have no other choice. I have a friend who has a permit to deer hunt a tract of land just outside a small city, and the landowner told him it would have to be buckshot only. Since there will continue to be people who hunt deer with buckshot, I'd think the gun industry would try to help them be as effective as possible. Why don't you try to find the OP some research using modern loads and guns? I'm sure you have the contacts to do it.

I've shared about all I know regarding buckshot for deer, so I will drop out of the thread. A good day to all!
 
#68 ·
coosa said:
I haven't seen any of them describe buckshot as "deadly and effective".
All anyone has to do is read this thread. If buckshot isn't deadly (and effective, synonyms in this case) then no one would use it at all, under any circumstances. Yet, no one on this thread uses dogs to hunt deer with, the fellow in Canada can not, so the only "Strawman" component is the false injection of using dogs to drive deer with that no one here does. That debate is covered here, http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/l ... bate_1009/ and elsewhere.

The firearms industry has done a superb job in offering far more effective, ethical, efficient, less wasteful alternatives to buckshot. This isn't news: the 30-30 has been around since 1895.
 
#70 ·
How old are you?

Do you understand the difference between big game hunting and just killing? There is a strong anti-hunting narrative going on, and blowing a leg off of a deer plays right into it. There are too many one-legged deer hopping around as is.

There is a vast difference between scrap animals, meaning pests / varmints such as coyote, feral hogs, and so forth. Depredation work is one thing, but big game hunting is a completely different angle. Either you have respect for the animal, or you don't.

Many farmers just want coyotes, hogs, and deer dead . . . all of them. It is understandable, for if you are protecting your property, your livelihood, your way of making a living . . . it is just protecting your sheep, your crops, and your income.

If you make a carnival out of it, the public sentiment is assured. Surely you know that depredation work is big business in some areas: including 24 / 7 night vision kills. It is also a carnival ride in some areas:



"Book Your Hunt Today . . . at Heli-Hunter." Featuring the SpitLead TAC-12 A1.



Thanks, but no thanks. Good luck.
 
#71 ·
I said I was thru posting, but I'd better clarify this. I did not "blow the leg off" the deer I shot with tungsten 5mm shot. The load hit her right in the shoulder, and a shot at the bottom of the pattern sheared the bone in the leg completely in two. I made the pic that I included in my post while I was skinning the deer to demonstrate that at 30 yards a single pellet had enough penetrating ability to completely shear the big bone in the front leg. Most any rifle would have done the same thing if it hit a deer in that spot, but I don't know if lead buckshot would or not.

Just wanted to clarify. That deer had many pellets thru the lungs and died instantly.
 
#72 ·
We have a lot of respect for the deer we HUNT. And the deer we shoot either don't get hit and run away or die within 50 yards. That helicopter hunting is completely different from what we do, we are not just killing. We usually have tags left over and some of us split the deer. None of us are there just to shoot stuff because it's fun. We are there because we enjoy the outdoors and like venison. I have not been rude to anyone in this thread and you are and for no reason. You say buckshot is terrible. It works for me and plenty of others. Maybe there is something wrong with your gun or ammo or your own skill. If you can't kill a deer quickly with buckshot, maybe you shouldn't be hunting at all.
 
#73 ·
Well, what I am trying to do is sort out the "gray area". In Africa a double rifle was often used to hunt leopards (Cost of a double rifle $15,000 up) but to track down a wounded leopard in the brush a 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot was used. It is point blank shooting. ON THE OTHER HAND a single No.00 buckshot pellet at 40 yards has slowed down enough to only have about 115 ft. lbs. of energy. Therefore there is a huge drop off in effectiveness with buckshot. Using a heavier mass pellet- as explained- can help extend the effectiveness.
In Florida not all dog hunters use buckshot. There are some areas where a 50 -70 yard shot is possible. In such areas a lot of hunters have scope mounted semi-autos, either 243 or 308. My issue is having a 30-06 in heavy cover, the deer runs, you are concentrating on the shot, the bullet deflects off a tree and now you have a projectile with about 2,000 ft. lbs. of energy at 40 yards versus 115 ft. lbs. Being aware of this grim reality I in good conscious simply watch the deer run off if it is in heavy cover, the jumped deer caught me off guard, and I would be rushing a shot. Now a rabbit, quail, dove, etc. takes off about as fast and I can usually dust the feathers so the way I am looking at matters, I don't see why a good tight pattern of buckshot should not work. Once again, we are talking 25-35 yards. I have sat against a deer and had deer come in about 10 feet (feet not yards). Some of the cover is very dense.
I did not mention this before but a few years back I did test a couple of buckshot loads at around 30 yards and only a couple of pellets were inside a 30" circle so I just figured the stuff wasn't any good. One problem (I think) is most buckshot today may be geared to a home defense use with un-buffered loads, etc. to have the pellets spread apart quickly- maybe okay against a bad guy 30' away but not what you want for deer hunting.
Another issue that keeps popping up is bad experiences, the person that never tested the load, has no idea of the pellet spread, uses it for hunting, takes a "30 yard" shot that might actually be 40 yards, and the deer runs off. The conclusion is buckshot isn't any good. It is the same argument that often arises with a 30-30 versus a 30-06 for deer hunting. Shoot a deer with a 30-30 that for some reason runs off a ways and the 30-30 is blamed.
NOW, I know that I must be coming across as wanting to make myself believe buckshot is a great deer killer. Sorry if that is the impression- I am actually trying to get feedback from buckshot hunters. I have read some articles by Archibald Rutledge of South Carolina who killed about 290 deer with buckshot, mostly using No.1. The trouble is, he had dogs to run down wounded deer so that could have played a role in harvesting that many deer.
So, to restate matters, I don't want to take a fast shot in heavy cover at running deer while using a 30-30 or 30-06. The bullet can deflect and cripple the deer or fly off to parts unknown. I THINK buckshot in such situations would work and therefore I am trying to figure what kind of pattern at say 30 yards ought to work in such a situation. I have had a couple of people tell me their shotgun can put all the pellets of a particular load into a hand sized group at 25 yards. That's great but if field experience shows 6 pellets will usually down a deer then having a slightly more open pattern makes it easier to hit a running deer and within a 24" area at least 5 pellets ought to hit critical areas. Hope I explained my situation.
The biggest issue I'm running into is misinformation. I had one guy tell me he killed a deer at 100 yards using a 410 shotgun. I asked him how high he held over the deer and he said he just aimed right at it. I think a 410 only holds 3 No.00 pellets. When I'm eyeball to eyeball with a lot of locales and they tell me things if I ask about the details the stories get clouded very quickly.
I want to thank everyone here that have simply reported their experiences. If I tried to learn such things on my own it would take years of field experience using buckshot.
 
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