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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:16 am 
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Location: Newton Kansas
dcat wrote:
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
You should be able to make good hits hip shooting at 20 feet and less, practice.

Sights are for distance and exra-fine accuracy, both of which are of limited use in self defense situations.


I guess that really depends on what your definition of good hits is.

Shooting my HD shotgun with Federal FC, the buckshot is just coming out of the wad at 20 feet so the pattern is about 1-1/2". I am morally and legally responsible to put those pellets where they need to go.

That is quite true, and yet soooooo many people have an extreme "accuracy expectation" for firearms at what cannot be described as anything other than Point Blank distance.

People all over proclaim handgun/ammunition combinations that will not shoot 1" at 25 yards to be "too inaccurate" for self defense use, like they think they are going to have to thread a needle somehow. "The shirt is bullet proof,, but if I can just hit the button-hole, it'll get through there, so I need Button-Hole Selection Ammo".

Your shotgun is not a Sniper Rifle, never will be, no matter what Magic Ammo Federal produces, yet you seem to want it to be and you want to use it like one.

How wide is that target you need to shoot at 20 feet?

I am about 16" wide across my important bodily parts, not including arms.

I am going to call a "good hit" as anything within a 16"W x 24"H Upper Body Area
A Really Good Hit is that 8" Pie Plate just below the neck.

That Guy Who Needs Shot who is 20 feet away from you, charges you, if you are not ALREADY SHOULDERED, it will take him 1.0 second or less to get to you, you do not have time to shoulder. Better hip shoot it, twice, maybe 3 times.
How's your reaction time?
Normal Human Being from decision to action is between 1/4 and 1/2 second, it only gets longer as you age. That 1/4 second belongs to the 20-somethings who are essentially "waiting for the go-signal"
.
If you can't put that 1 1/2" cluster of balls into the upper torso from the hip as he is closing distance on you, you'd better practice.
1/2 second in that 1 1/2" is only .75" at 10 feet.
At 6 feet he can reach your shouldered gun, so you don't really have 20 feet, it's 14.

So, the Guy Who Needs Shot only has to cover 14-15 feet to get a hand to your gun, has 3/4 second to do it, YOU will need 1/2 second to see him charge, decide to shoot him, try to shoulder it so you can insure your "liability" with those buckshot is covered, get 1/2 shouldered when he slams into you, knifes the hell out of you (or perhaps just slams you into a wall or drives you into the floor (concussion?)), maybe then shoots you with your own Flite Control Wad, from 4 feet. Maybe twice.

Ever watch someone try to draw a handgun, from a holster (not a complicated Level III retention holster, just a simple friction-retention leather or Kydex gun-holder)?
The Draw Time vs. the Attacker Distance Covering is why the "21-foot rule" exists.
A non-crippled Human Being can cover that 21 feet before almost anyone can get a gun pulled out of that holster and bring it to bear.
Don't try to bum-rush Jerry Miculic, Doug Koenig, and a host of others, it's suicide, but they are not "typical" people.

Are you going to walk around your house clearing it shouldered?
Ever done that?
It's good for focusing you ahead, but you tend to lose Situational Awareness of the larger picture, your head "comes off the swivel". You become easier to blind-side.

Zimmerman was blind-sided by a larger assailant he did not see coming.

"Oh ****!!!!" allows no time for fine accuracy aiming. You need effective hits on target, and you need them like yesterday.




In theory, theory and reality are the same thing.

In reality, they seldom match up, theory falls short a lot of times.



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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:55 pm 
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I have always been of the opinion that combat shotguns are best suited for indoor distances. And that you should have a plan to use cover and concealment to fire from a prearranged chokepoint like a hall or staircase. When you play hide and seek with shotguns the hider always wins. Searching the house gives that advantage to the home invader who very well might be laying in wait for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Location: Newton Kansas
Agreed, every word of it Ezra.

Just wait and ambush the baddie. "If you are in a fair fight, your tactics stink".

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:55 pm
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I am well aware of the Tueller drill, the 21 foot rule, and reaction times.

Ezra makes a very valid point regarding the use of choke points and cover. I would suggest that those intending to use a shotgun for HD find a time when everyone else is gone from the house and walk through scenarios with an unloaded shotgun, practicing bringing the shotgun from the ready position to sweep the rooms, practice using a light, etc.

I will not shoot from the hip. If something goes bump in the night and shotgun is in my hands, it will be at the low ready, the high ready, or the close ready (low ready pointed more down to clear doorways, etc.).


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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:31 pm 
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I finally bit the bullet and bought one. I haven’t fired it yet, still a little under the weather with the flu.


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Last edited by Banshee on Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:46 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:23 pm 
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Very nice purchase, Banshee. Congratulations, sir.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:37 pm 
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I just heard from some guy behind the counter at the gun store that there is a recall on these. Something about the firing pin breaking. Any truth to this?

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:10 pm 
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To my knowledge there is absolutely no difference in the bolt of the TAC 13 and any other V3. So if there is a firing pin breakage issue it is a materials problem that has just surfaced. I am sure Remington will make it right but it is too bad if true. It cuts into profit margin a great deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:16 pm 
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Ezra Smack wrote:
I just heard from some guy behind the counter at the gun store that there is a recall on these. Something about the firing pin breaking. Any truth to this?


There is nothing on the Remington web site’s recall page. Several recalls shown, but nothing on the V3.

https://www.remington.com/support/safety-center

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:22 pm 
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The problem may stem from the fact that demand is such that they can't make them fast enough. This means that Remington has to hire a bunch of new inexperienced employees to try and fill orders as quickly as possible. The same thing happened during the "Obama panic" when factories were overwhelmed and running 24 hours with overworked or inexperienced help. Quality dropped just like it did with war production Mausers.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:03 pm 
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Ezra Smack wrote:
The problem may stem from the fact that demand is such that they can't make them fast enough. This means that Remington has to hire a bunch of new inexperienced employees to try and fill orders as quickly as possible. The same thing happened during the "Obama panic" when factories were overwhelmed and running 24 hours with overworked or inexperienced help. Quality dropped just like it did with war production Mausers.


I really don't want to be argumentative, but I don't see how hurried production would effect firing pins premature breakage. They either don't assemble the firing pin into the bolt properly, or they do. It is a go-no go type of check. I have had that bolt completely apart, and there is no way to get it installed incorrectly. The premature breakage to me if occurring, has to be due to a faulty material.

Now if we want to speculate that maybe QC was compromised on parts being tested/produced due to demand; I can see that easily happening. But I just fail to see how an inordinate assembly push would cause an increase in a pin breakage issue. We should hear some confirmation soon from other sources, if it is happening. Thanks for the heads-up.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:39 pm 
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It might be that a defective design was put into production and thousands were rushed out the door before the flaw was discovered. Again, it would still be due to high demand be it an unproven design or unproven employees. This sort of thing happens in hurried war production or in sudden commercial business success. Remington will straighten out the problem and I will buy one.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:39 pm 
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Remington Arms Company, LLC Consumer Services / Parts & Service TEL: 1-800-243-9700

https://www.remington.com/support/safety-center

https://www.remington.com/search?query=recall

I thought that Banshee settled the matter. If the counter guy said there is a recall on the TAC-13 but neither it nor the V3 is on the recall page, then the counter guy was mistaken.

I just called Consumer Services and told the representative that I was trying to stop a rumor, and she confirmed that there is no recall for either the V3 TAC-13 or the V3. However to be certain, she transferred me to the Parts Department, and that representative likewise confirmed that there is no safety recall for the TAC-13 nor for the V3.

Could I believe that someone in the frozen North had a stuck firing pin because he did not first disassemble and clean the rust preventative out of his new TAC-13? Sure. Could I believe that the firing pins are breaking without a word on the internet? Ezra Smack, you could challenge the counter guy to give you a box of shells if he cannot prove his rumor about a TAC-13 recall.

Remington Arms Company, LLC on 26 Apr 2016 wrote:
Remington Arms Company, LLC, (“Remington”) is proud to announce today that it is offering a limited lifetime warranty on all Remington firearms purchased 01 Jan 2016 or after.

“We take pride in crafting dependable, quality firearms designed to last a lifetime in the field or on the range,” said Leland Nichols, SVP & GM Firearms & Accessories. “We’re proud of the Americans who manufacture our products and want to showcase their skill by offering a limited lifetime warranty on all of our firearms.”

Starting 01 Jan 2016, Remington warrants to the original purchaser of a new firearm from Remington that such firearm shall be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of time that the purchaser originally owns that firearm.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:15 pm 
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wfb18 wrote:
Remington Arms Company, LLC Consumer Services / Parts & Service TEL: 1-800-243-9700

https://www.remington.com/support/safety-center

https://www.remington.com/search?query=recall

I thought that Banshee settled the matter. If the counter guy said there is a recall on the TAC-13 but neither it nor the V3 is on the recall page, then the counter guy was mistaken.

I just called Consumer Services and told the representative that I was trying to stop a rumor, and she confirmed that there is no recall for either the V3 TAC-13 or the V3. However to be certain, she transferred me to the Parts Department, and that representative likewise confirmed that there is no safety recall for the TAC-13 nor for the V3.

Could I believe that someone in the frozen North had a stuck firing pin because he did not first disassemble and clean the rust preventative out of his new TAC-13? Sure. Could I believe that the firing pins are breaking without a word on the internet? Ezra Smack, you could challenge the counter guy to give you a box of shells if he cannot prove his rumor about a TAC-13 recall.

Remington Arms Company, LLC on 26 Apr 2016 wrote:
Remington Arms Company, LLC, (“Remington”) is proud to announce today that it is offering a limited lifetime warranty on all Remington firearms purchased 01 Jan 2016 or after.

“We take pride in crafting dependable, quality firearms designed to last a lifetime in the field or on the range,” said Leland Nichols, SVP & GM Firearms & Accessories. “We’re proud of the Americans who manufacture our products and want to showcase their skill by offering a limited lifetime warranty on all of our firearms.”

Starting 01 Jan 2016, Remington warrants to the original purchaser of a new firearm from Remington that such firearm shall be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of time that the purchaser originally owns that firearm.


wfb18 beat me to the punch because I was just going to email Remington and ask them about this alleged problem. As it turns out, it is just another "gun-store commando" putting out bad information. Those guys never try to confirm something before passing it out and instead are the source of a bunch of lousy and incorrect advice. In my experience, their ignorance is only exceeded by their arrogance.

Thanks again wfb18 for correcting this rumor! {hs#

Ezra, it looks like it is o.k. to make that TAC-13 purchase you have been thinking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:40 pm 
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It is good to know there isn't a recall.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington V3 Tac-13 - short semi-auto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:46 pm 
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Glad it is just a rumor. Once I make it through tax season I plan on buying one.



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