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Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?

27K views 175 replies 27 participants last post by  Gherkin05 
#1 ·
I am going to buy my grandson a new 20 gauge auto this weekend. I have always owned owned 1100's. I know that Remington quality on Marlin has been very poor since they bought the company. Has this carried over to the 1100/1187 line as well or has the reliability and quality been maintained? I have not bought a new Remington in over 20 years so thanks for any responses.
 
#77 ·
This right here. We want cheap but we say quality and what do we buy? The cheapest thing we can find and cry when it's not up to par with a quality item of yesteryear.
As I stated earlier me personally I have never seen anyone whine about their new $700 Wingmaster compared to an 'older' from the 70's. I have seen people cry about the 'PERCEIVED' quality of their $200 box store Express vs an older Wingmaster.
When asked why didn't you buy a Wingmaster I always get the "deer in the headlights" look, "I'm not paying that", or "can't afford it" answer EVERY TIME-ok.
I'm sorry a new Corolla is never going to be an older Lexus. Especially one that's been kept in a climate controlled garage never used with a cover on it.- read the last TWO lines exactly how I wrote them and think about that primo 70s Wingmaster kept in a case in the back of the closet for 40+ years.
 
#78 ·
In my opinion even the Wingmaster regardless of what era are consider a very affordable field gun and a Express is pure junk, fork out the cash for a D grade at least. I hunt with a 870 200th anniversary limited with a factory exhibition stock set, I watch after it but I don't pretend it is some High Grade hence why I have F grades for that reason.
 
#79 ·
RandyWakeman said:
Just what is the definition of 'quality'? The vast majority of consumers want cheap and that is what they buy. Over and over again, the voice of the people votes for 'CHEAP.' It should surprise no one that cheap is what is offered.

Is the Ruger American a high quality rifle? A Savage Axis? Essentially unfinished guns do the big numbers. No one was ever forced to buy an Express vs. a Wingmaster, but that is what most people buy-- overwhelmingly.

Take a look at a Beretta 686. Every year, cheaper wood, cheaper engraving, cheaper finishes. Or, an A400 . . . plastic and fake wood.

Or, Browning.



The current BPS is cratewood and matte.



The 'Silver' . . . cheap and ugly at $1099. The faded image of John M. Browning won't help it.

You can call it "entry-level," "affordable," "wallet-friendly" or whatever you want. It is still cheap, cobby, cheezy, tin-can, crate-wood from Portugal. There used to be certain minimum standards to have the 'Browning' or 'Beretta' nameplates. Those days are gone... long gone.

You can call it polymer, technopolymer, or composite . . . it is still cheap plastic, and people apparently love it, love it, and can't get enough of it. :roll: Manufacturers are forced to make what people actually buy.

You can buy a Honda Ridgeline for $29,990 MSRP, or for $43,320 MSRP. Same vehicle, same frame, same engine, transmission, same cab, etc. It is just the trim level you want.
Completely agree with you Randy.

But when the doors don't line up well on any of them, regardless of trim....or the transmissions don't hold up as well as they used to (98-02 Accords) then do you keep blindly buying, or do you perhaps get a little more careful when you're buying?

We bought Hondas from 1988 until the present. Quality control on them isn't what it used to be either. Still good, but not what it was in the early 90's. And yes, I passed on some generations of Hondas because of issues that popped up during those specific years, like the 98-02 Accord transmissions.
 
#80 ·
greekspec2 said:
In my opinion even the Wingmaster regardless of what era are consider a very affordable field gun and a Express is pure junk, fork out the cash for a D grade at least. I hunt with a 870 200th anniversary limited with a factory exhibition stock set, I watch after it but I don't pretend it is some High Grade hence why I have F grades for that reason.
" a Express is pure junk" . A rather sweeping generalization, IMO. Mine certainly isn't, though it's no Wingmaster. It does precisely what I bought it for, and actually does it rather well.
 
#81 ·
Germansheperd said:
This right here. We want cheap but we say quality and what do we buy? The cheapest thing we can find and cry when it's not up to par with a quality item of yesteryear.
As I stated earlier me personally I have never seen anyone whine about their new $700 Wingmaster compared to an 'older' from the 70's. I have seen people cry about the 'PERCEIVED' quality of their $200 box store Express vs an older Wingmaster.
When asked why didn't you buy a Wingmaster I always get the "deer in the headlights" look, "I'm not paying that", or "can't afford it" answer EVERY TIME-ok.
I'm sorry a new Corolla is never going to be an older Lexus. Especially one that's been kept in a climate controlled garage never used with a cover on it.- read the last TWO lines exactly how I wrote them and think about that primo 70s Wingmaster kept in a case in the back of the closet for 40+ years.
I agree. If we're going to go with the car comparison, we started buying Hondas in the late 80's. My grandfather lived next door to us, had owned the GMC/Buick/Pontiac dealership for decades, but we got tired of taking the Buicks and GMC's back in constantly to have shoddy build quality fixed, even when it was free/done under warranty. New 83 GMC had the gas gauge, speedometer, and A/C all dead within a year of buying it new. All under warranty so it's ok? NO, not ok. The final straw was a brand new Buick Lesabre wagon that had a roof rack that leaked and ruined the headliner less than a week after it came off the lot. It still ran. Stuff worked on it. It was comfortable, but it wasn't RIGHT. GM quality control, surprise surprise, went to crap. We started buying Hondas then. The Lesabre wasn't the only problem car we had, just the straw that broke the camel's back. That car was highly optioned (even had a factory CB!) but it wasn't well made. Not ALL GM vehicles had problems at the time, but the number of GM vehicles that did have problems was much higher than it had been in the past.

The Hondas weren't luxury cars but they had excellent build quality.

The original poster asked if the build quality has fallen on Remingtons like it has on Marlins, since the buyout. My opinion is that, YES, it did fall off. You want to have a different opinion, that's fine. That's your right. I doubt he expected to get all "yay" or all "nay".

The thing is, in the days of the web, there are a helluva lot of people who have had problems with the Cerberus era Remingtons (not just the shotguns, but the whole line) and the Remlins. I guess we just ignore all that though, right?

For those who keep saying I'm comparing an Express to a Wingmaster, NO I'm not. I'm comparing Dupont era Wingmasters to Cerberus era Wingmasters, and the number of problem guns went WAY up during the Cerberus era.

Try google folks. Or just go to your local gun shop and talk to them. Or look over at the guy in the dove field next to you with a jammomatic. I didn't say they were ALL bad. I said the chance of getting a bad one is much higher if you buy one from the Cerberus era.

So again, I will repeat ad naseum, LOOK VERY CLOSELY AT THE GUN YOU ARE BUYING AND DON'T ASSUME IT IS GOOD BECAUSE IT'S A REMINGTON.

Or even better, find an older one where the risk of getting lemon was much lower.

I didn't say don't buy one period, I just said to be wary.
 
#83 ·
S.davis said:
RandyWakeman said:
There used to be certain minimum standards to have the 'Browning' or 'Beretta' nameplates. Those days are gone... long gone.
This is what the "Remington sucks"/"just get a B-gun" crowd just can't quite get there heads around. Cheap Remingtons are cheap. Plenty of cheap, crude, and not well built "B-guns" are fairly expensive.


:lol: That`s actually rather funny!
 
#84 ·
RandyWakeman said:
Marlin Mike said:
I am going to buy my grandson a new 20 gauge auto this weekend. I have always owned owned 1100's. I know that Remington quality on Marlin has been very poor since they bought the company.
Actually, no-- Marlin product has never been better. Most of the old Marlin line made by Marlin was made without production prints, on old beat-up tooling. Current Marlin lever guns are a big step up.
How many new ones do you own and shoot? Bet not a one. The JM Marlin rifles were VERY WELL made as to fit and function. Remington screwed up ALL Marlin rifles for about 5 years. They may be getting better now. Ever been on the marlin forum? FYI...Currently I own 7 Marlin JM rifles. All are perfect. Can't that for Remington Marlins currently made.
 
#86 ·
Virginian said:
If it wasn't for Remington buying them there would be no Marlin.
Eh, possibly. Some other company might have picked Marlin up, potentially without screwing it up as badly as Cerberus did.

Or it might have gone the way of so many other gun makers and gone under completely.

I don't necessarily see keeping a name alive and producing a lesser product under that same name a good thing. Just leads to confusion when people hear about how great something is and then can't understand why they get a sub-par item. Happens all the time though.

In the Jeep community, Optima batteries were the gold standard for a long time. Johnson Controls bought them out, moved production to Mexico, and they're junk now. Look the same, cost more than they did when they were good, but they're crap. Same thing that happened with Marlin.

Hopefully they'll get better with time.
 
#87 ·
Also of note, Remington did not benefit from the massive influx of money that accompanied the politically motivated switch to a NATO caliber handgun. A decision the military is still clawing it's way back from every chance they get.
 
#88 ·
The Happy Kaboomer said:
RandyWakeman said:
Marlin Mike said:
I am going to buy my grandson a new 20 gauge auto this weekend. I have always owned owned 1100's. I know that Remington quality on Marlin has been very poor since they bought the company.
Actually, no-- Marlin product has never been better. Most of the old Marlin line made by Marlin was made without production prints, on old beat-up tooling. Current Marlin lever guns are a big step up.
How many new ones do you own and shoot? Bet not a one. The JM Marlin rifles were VERY WELL made as to fit and function. Remington screwed up ALL Marlin rifles for about 5 years. They may be getting better now. Ever been on the marlin forum? FYI...Currently I own 7 Marlin JM rifles. All are perfect. Can't that for Remington Marlins currently made.
I had a brand new JM Marlin with a broken stock from the factory. The front sight was also canted. The "JM Marlins were all perfect" is a myth.
 
#89 ·
RandyWakeman said:
Jeepwm69 said:
LOL. They changed the name. Still the same conglomerate of companies that were bought and then used as leverage to borrow money while destroying the actual companies.
Not true. Cerberus is G-O-N-E.

And, Marlin is now doing extremely well. https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... gust-2019/

GunBroker.com Announces Top Selling Firearms for August 2019


Lever-Action Rifles
1. Marlin 1895
2. Marlin 1894
3. Marlin 336
My faith in the American shotgun buyer has been restored looking at this list.

I was expecting cheap Turk O/U's to be dominating sales until

I scrolled down and saw Browning holding the top 3 positions.
 
#90 ·
RandyWakeman said:
Marlin Mike said:
I am going to buy my grandson a new 20 gauge auto this weekend. I have always owned owned 1100's. I know that Remington quality on Marlin has been very poor since they bought the company.
Actually, no-- Marlin product has never been better. Most of the old Marlin line made by Marlin was made without production prints, on old beat-up tooling. Current Marlin lever guns are a big step up.
This popped up today on the Marlin Owners page. I think I'll stick with my JM marked Marlins.

This could have resulted in serious injury or death. Quality control is hit or miss, and when you have a controlled explosion under your face, that's not acceptable.

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marl ... 895cb.html
 
#91 ·
Every gun manufacturer has some lemons, none of them turns out perfect rifles 100% of the time. I believe that the quality of current Marlins is generally good, at least that is what I have gathered from MarlinOwners.com. The real test is the manufacturer's customer service and whether the lemons are made good or replaced, IMO.
 
#92 ·
lossking said:
Every gun manufacturer has some lemons, none of them turns out perfect rifles 100% of the time. I believe that the quality of current Marlins is generally good, at least that is what I have gathered from MarlinOwners.com. The real test is the manufacturer's customer service and whether the lemons are made good or replaced, IMO.
That's a little worse than a lemon. That's someone on the assembly line who just shrugged and sent a ticking time bomb down the line and out the door, and the fact that no one looked closely enough at it to catch it is terrifying.

I do think customer service after the sale is supposed to be pretty good, but if you read the thread, you'll note that some folks (depending on location) have to jump through a LOT of hoops when such a gun runs out into circulation. Its not as simple as sending it back in, getting it fixed, and having it come back out.

I just think most all of the manufacturers now have semi-skilled labor assembling parts instead of craftsmen building guns.

I do wonder what else that particular employee, and those checking the gun out afterwards, have let out the door. You would think that today they would be able to track a serial number back to the person who assembled it. Someone shouldn't have a job anymore.
 
#93 ·
I bought a NIB 20ga autoloader from one of the major, old line gun manufacturers (not Remington) just a few months ago, and had to send the barrel back before firing a shot to have the choke tube threads chased. The modified choke which came with the gun came out with difficulty and would not screw back in, nor would any of the other tubes. After the barrel came back, I pulled the trigger group from the receiver to clean the rust preservative from the internals. Well, it came out with difficulty and simply would not go back in no way no how. I suppose the receiver opening was to minimum specs and the trigger group frame was to maximum specs. In any case, I then had to return the entire gun for service, still having never fired it. When it came back this time, it was fine and has been flawless since.

A friend of mine spent $6,000 on a semi-custom O/U from a well known maker and had to return it three or four times for various issues, and the gun is still not perfect.

All I can say is, it happens.
 
#94 ·
IN 2019 I bought a remington 870 express in 410. Out of the box it wouldn't lock up half the time. Shell released from the magazine would jam under the open bolt into the trigger assembly. Sent it back and came back working like it was supposed to. They replaced the trigger assembly, magazine tube/spring and follower.
Bought one of those $249.00 11-87's in 20 ga. It woudln't run a magazine of ANY brand of shell without hanging up. It's back at remington now.
Like I did with taurus I won't buy ANY new remington in the future. Should have bought one of those Turshish 20 ga auto loaders. From reports those sold by Mossberg/Weatherby and Tristar are very dependable guns.
 
#101 ·
Late for this one, but I agree with Randy on this.

I personally own several Remington shotguns. I can say without bias that the new ones I own are far more reliable and better made. That might sound crazy, but this is coming from someone who approached new Remington products with the same skepticism that is so shamelessly circulated by people who are biased agains the company in its current state, for whatever reason.

I can absolutely understand the nostalgia factor involved with older Remingtons. It's totally understandable - gun carry great nostalgic value for a lot of people. But speaking from personal experience, I have absolutely no doubt saying that the new Remington products are, if not drastically better than, just as good as their predecessors.

To get on topic of the thread, however -

The 1100 you really cannot go wrong with, old or new. Just be sure to keep a few O-rings handy and you'll be glad you made that decision. It's a heavier gun and definitely more of a clays gun, but an outstanding choice nonetheless. It's the most popular gas gun of all time for a reason.

The 1187 I cannot speak from experience on as I don't have one, but I have heard from multiple people that while they are heavy for a field gun they are extremely reliable.
 
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