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V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot

10K views 41 replies 11 participants last post by  .45colt 
#1 ·
Hi Guys, anyone ever experience the trigger not resetting for the second shot?
2 weeks ago at the end of my skeet day it fell off the rack into the snow. It was full of snow inside and out.
I brought it home and took it apart including removing the trigger. I sprayed it well with WD40 figuring it would dissipate any water. then wiped it all out. I didnt take the bolt apart but i did spray it and wipe it down.
shooting it a week later (yesterday), i found that several time through my skeet round the trigger didnt reset. No FTF or FTE. the second round was in the chamber, just no bang when I pulled the trigger.

I do know that you can actually disengage the trigger by pulling the bolt handle back to about 7/8 of the full distance and the trigger disengages.
While at my club, I did end up going back to the cabin we have and taking it apart again to wipe it all out. Put a drop of oil on the rails and bolt and it still did it. Im thinking for some reason its not going all the way back.

When i got home last night I removed the bolt and took it apart to clean and wipe it down. It didnt look that dirty but I'm hoping that's the problem. I wont be able to test it for another week.
Any ideas what else I should look for?
Thanks
 
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#2 ·
No, but before anything else you might want to talk to Rem via their chat line and if you get the right person they may be able to help.

IMO unless something got wedged into the trigger assembly there is no other good reason I can think of.

Is the bolt fully seated in the barrel when the trigger fails to reset? Are the gas pistons moving freely when move them with the barrel off?

It has to be a minor thing that is causing the issue. Once you get it sorted out, let us know as a minimum, I am curious.
 
#3 ·
Hi Oyeme, Pistons do move freely. I cleaned them and the took the valves apart to clean those as well. The bolt is fully seated and the trigger group was sprayed and brushes lightly with a nylon brush (like a toothbrush) then wipes with an old tshirt rag.
I'll definitely follow up as it goes.
 
#4 ·
Looks like you did everything anyone else would have done. Weird for sure but the good news is that IMO it cannot be anything serious and will be fixed for sure.

The only thing else is to use some compressed air on trigger assembly. Can you tell if bolt has returned the hammer to full cock?
 
#5 ·
The first thing we need to know in a situation like this is whether the hammer is fully back (cocked) or whether the hammer is already down when it fails to fire. The next time this happens, look into the action from the bolt handle side and see if the hammer is cocked or down.

If the hammer is cocked, then likely the bolt didn't close. In this case, bump the bolt handle forward to close it and try again to pull the trigger.

If the hammer is down, then it followed the bolt forward when the bolt cycled. This could indicate a problem in the trigger assembly. Be sure that you are FULLY releasing the trigger from the first shot before trying to pull it for the second shot. If you're using gloves when shooting, you may not realize that you didn't fully release the trigger.
 
#6 ·
Well i cant say I checked if the hammer was cocked or forward but I can say in every case the action was fully closed.
I'm thinking for some reason it isn't going all the way back.
I'm sure some of you have noticed that if you pull the bolt handle back almost all the way up to just before it locks you'll hear a click. At this point the hammer is cocked but the trigger doesn't go off. if you push the bolt release you'll hear the click and it will then fire.
 
#7 ·
kuffs06 said:
Well i cant say I checked if the hammer was cocked or forward but I can say in every case the action was fully closed.
I'm thinking for some reason it isn't going all the way back.
I'm sure some of you have noticed that if you pull the bolt handle back almost all the way up to just before it locks you'll hear a click. At this point the hammer is cocked but the trigger doesn't go off. if you push the bolt release you'll hear the click and it will then fire.
I'm going to have to disagree with some of your conclusions. If the bolt went back far enough to eject the empty and load the next round into the chamber, it certainly went back far enough to cock the hammer. And, unless you actually took your hand and attempted to push the bolt handle forward, you can't be SURE the bolt was fully closed and locked up. Further, unless you completely removed your finger from the trigger and then attempted to pull it again, after making SURE the bolt was fully closed, then you can't be certain that it wouldn't pull.

So, if you want to assist me in helping you to diagnose your gun problem, I request that you do as I asked in my post above and report back on your findings. Also, as was the case in another failure to fire situation very recently, it's quite possible that the cold temperatures play a role.
 
#8 ·
I have had some issues this season with the gun not firing when it sure as heck seems like it is all the way closed. It happened during early duck and then again in late pheasant. Even opening and manually closing it again, it might not fire that shell. I tacked the description onto someone's post, but I have not had a chance to shoot the gun since. I don't believe the issue has to do with the bolt not going back far enough; rather the bolt is not going forward far enough, because a lot happens in that last little bit with rotary bolt head.

I had my gun back to Rem last summer. It was never a 100% cycle-er, but it was pretty good. It doesn't feel like shooting a flintlock anymore, but they changed out the trigger group for some reason and I have to wonder what they saw there for them to do that. It was supposed to be only a barrel replacement.

Here is what I posted last month, different subforum, and like I said I haven't shot it since:
I am definitely having some issues with my gun since it came back, particularly when cold or humid. It cost me two pheasants last week when it was in the 30s. The first chance, it fired once, cycled and closed but the trigger did not engage. I chambered another shell and everything looked fine. Then we got another bird up and it didn't go off on that shot; I hand cycled halfway and slammed it forward and it went off on that trigger pull, but by then I was shooting blind through cover, and no joy. Then I pointed in the air, warned the group I was shooting, and those shells were "successfully" wasted.

When it is not going off on the first shot, that is a serious problem. The bolt seems to be slamming shut with authority, so how would one know? I am quickly becoming less enamored with this gun. It seems like there is a whole lot going on in that last 1/32" of closure.

With Fed 3" Steel on the first day of early season October duck, it was very unreliable. 40f and wet that morning. I ended up shooting over a box of shells as many times it was a single shot and good opportunites were missed. Second shots not going off, sometimes first shots. Rechamber and they might or might not go off. After that I lubed bolt and receiver with One Shot and it had been very good on pheasants in November, but after a couple weeks off, trouble again. I haven't been out much for ducks since it turned cold, but I am dreading it and have lost some confidence in the gun.
 
#9 ·
Hmmm, seems to be a pattern here of unreliable firing, especially in cold weather. In both of these cases, it seems that the bolt is not fully locking up which would obviously not allow the trigger to be pulled.

I know that both of you have cleaned and oiled your guns, but I'm a fan of shooting semi's WET with Breakfree CLP, especially if they are being balky and not working 100%. Yes, I know that many guns will work fine with just a slight drop or two of oil, but not all of them will, especially if they haven't had several thousand rounds through them.

So, my suggestion is to dunk the bolt assembly and the trigger assembly in mineral spirits for 15 minutes of so. Then remove them from the cleaner and blow dry or air dry. Then, lubricate generously with Breakfree CLP, especially where parts rub together or slide on another metal part. Better to be quite generous with the CLP than not have enough.
 
#10 ·
I could try the soak and oil - I probably will - but when I've shot clays with it, it hasn't been a problem. To test it, I'd really need to drive 30 miles, get out early in a cold drizzle and set up for crows at first light; then it will be a real world test.

I have a very low round count compared to guys shooting clays regularly. Probably 750 to 1k since I got it back in the summer, maybe 2k-3k for the two seasons before that. It was shockingly unreliable with the 3" Fed 1450 1-1/4 steel, and you know that certainly isn't a problem with the bolt being pushed far enough. Cleaning and lubing, especially the firing pin and inside the receiver with one shot (case lube) seemed to take care of it pretty well for pheasant season. Until a couple weeks off for deer season, then it acted up again with pheasant loads.

I do put my gun up wet a lot. When an auto is balking by not lifting a round up, or not chambering all the way, if the bolt feels sluggish - I understand that. But closing like this and still not firing, then doing it a few more times and it finally goes bang, is absolutely grating to me. This is the first shotgun I've ever had with a rotating bolt head. I am certainly amazed that some people say they have shot thousands of rounds and Never had a problem, but if I shot a few dozen flats during the summer, maybe I would not have issues either.

Another thing, when I got the gun back from Remington and had problems in October, upon disassembly the bolt looked like it had been degreased, and the cam post was bone dry. There may be a bit of dimensional change. That could be the problem right there, I don't know. I forgot about that. It has been pretty rough few months here, and I haven't had much time to look into it.
 
#11 ·
FullandFuller:

I would still do what Ulysses recommends because a) what have you got to lose and b) he has had great success diagnosing issues with semi autos. It may just help.

If not, then it most definitely needs to go back to Remington with a firm fix it or replace it; note.

I have not had my V3 in the cold weather yet, but at 1,000+ rounds has been flawless. Not even one FTF! I hope yours gets sorted out soon.
 
#12 ·
Well I did finally get a chance to completely disassemble, clean and oil the bolt group.
I don't really think temperatures were a factor as it was in the mid 30s. The V3 has been out in -15 on many occasions without a hiccup.
I can say without a doubt that my finger was nowhere near the trigger between shots. I paid specific attention to this after it happened the first time and wasn't wearing gloves. It's not that it doesn't work anymore at all… It would happen about five to six shots out of every round of skeet.
Either way, I won't be able to get out until Sunday… Hopefully the disassembly of the bolt will make the difference.
If it happens again I will follow your steps and keep you posted either way
Thanks
 
#13 ·
Here is something else that can contribute to unreliable cycling on a semi-auto when shooting in cold weather, and that is the extra clothing may cushion the recoil too much and result in inconsistent cycling of the action.

Semi-auto guns need a reasonably solid resistance to rearward movement for reliable functioning. Otherwise, the recoil will move the WHOLE GUN rearward and this lessens the momentum difference between the bolt assembly and the rest of the gun. When you have internal springs (such as semi-autos do), then these springs need something solid to push against. If the whole gun is moving rearward rather easily, then it lessens the "push/resistance" effect that the springs depend on for reliable functioning.
 
#14 ·
Ulysses said:
Here is something else that can contribute to unreliable cycling on a semi-auto when shooting in cold weather, and that is the extra clothing may cushion the recoil too much and result in inconsistent cycling of the action.

Semi-auto guns need a reasonably solid resistance to rearward movement for reliable functioning. Otherwise, the recoil will move the WHOLE GUN rearward and this lessens the momentum difference between the bolt assembly and the rest of the gun. When you have internal springs (such as semi-autos do), then these springs need something solid to push against. If the whole gun is moving rearward rather easily, then it lessens the "push/resistance" effect that the springs depend on for reliable functioning.
Ulysses, I`ve heard this, but only in relation to inertia guns. The V3 in question obviously isn`t. Does this apply to gas guns as well?
 
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#15 ·
Tidefanatic said:
Ulysses said:
Here is something else that can contribute to unreliable cycling on a semi-auto when shooting in cold weather, and that is the extra clothing may cushion the recoil too much and result in inconsistent cycling of the action.

Semi-auto guns need a reasonably solid resistance to rearward movement for reliable functioning. Otherwise, the recoil will move the WHOLE GUN rearward and this lessens the momentum difference between the bolt assembly and the rest of the gun. When you have internal springs (such as semi-autos do), then these springs need something solid to push against. If the whole gun is moving rearward rather easily, then it lessens the "push/resistance" effect that the springs depend on for reliable functioning.
Ulysses, I`ve heard this, but only in relation to inertia guns. The V3 in question obviously isn`t. Does this apply to gas guns as well?
Yes it does. The DEGREE to which it applies to any semi-auto will vary depending on tolerance of parts, strength of springs, and especially how well broken in the gun is, etc. This is why new shooters who lean away from the gun when firing (instead of leaning into the gun) will often have trouble with the gun cycling properly. It's because they are not providing enough resistance to the rearward movement of the gun for the action springs to work... whether that be an action spring in the stock, or on the magazine tube, or inside the bolt assembly.
 
#16 ·
Well, I had a chance to finish work early enough to get to the club late this afternoon. I shot 4 boxes of skeet all as doubles just to check function. It was 26F
It didn't skip a beat and fired every time. It was the complete disassembly cleaning and lube of the bolt that did it.
I knew it wasn't cold temperatures although burying it in snow that day 2 weeks ago was what started this whole thing LOL.

I will continue to say I've never had a semi auto shotgun I liked as much as the V3.
Hands down most reliable and best handling one Ive shot and I've owned many and tried many more at my club including berettas, benelli's, Winchester, versa max and browning to name a few. They've all been sold and this is my only semi left.
 
#17 ·
kuffs06 said:
Well, I had a chance to finish work early enough to get to the club late this afternoon. I shot 4 boxes of skeet all as doubles just to check function. It was 26F
It didn't skip a beat and fired every time. It was the complete disassembly cleaning and lube of the bolt that did it.
I knew it wasn't cold temperatures although burying it in snow that day 2 weeks ago was what started this whole thing LOL.

I will continue to say I've never had a semi auto shotgun I liked as much as the V3.
Hands down most reliable and best handling one Ive shot and I've owned many and tried many more at my club including berettas, benelli's, Winchester, versa max and browning to name a few. They've all been sold and this is my only semi left.
All is well that ends well! Good job on being persistent and being willing to listen to experts like Ulysses's suggestions on the fix.

I agree completely on the V3! It is a very easy gun to like and a great do-anything semi auto. Enjoy.
 
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#18 ·
kuffs06 said:
Well, I had a chance to finish work early enough to get to the club late this afternoon. I shot 4 boxes of skeet all as doubles just to check function. It was 26F
It didn't skip a beat and fired every time. It was the complete disassembly cleaning and lube of the bolt that did it.
I knew it wasn't cold temperatures although burying it in snow that day 2 weeks ago was what started this whole thing LOL.

I will continue to say I've never had a semi auto shotgun I liked as much as the V3.
Hands down most reliable and best handling one Ive shot and I've owned many and tried many more at my club including berettas, benelli's, Winchester, versa max and browning to name a few. They've all been sold and this is my only semi left.
I'm happy for you and glad that you got your gun working well again. Thanks for letting us know.

Yep, this is yet another example that proves, IMO, that semi-autos need lubrication to run well. Some guns can get by with very little lubrication, but when inexplicable problems start to pop up, a good soaking/cleaning followed by generous lubrication will fix a surprisingly large number of the problems. :D

Oh, and just to more directly address the specific problem you asked about, i.e. the trigger not setting, the reason it was not setting was because the bolt was not closing completely. And the reason the bolt was not closing completely was due to lack of lubrication of the bolt and the rotary locking mechanism.
 
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#19 ·
Well to be honest, I only put a few drops on it and spread it lightly along moving parts. I've always just followed the manuals recommendations for where to oil it and it's been good. It had just need a really long time since I'd done the bolt and I'm sure that dip in the snow didn't help it LOL.
Thanks
For your input
 
#21 ·
Ulysses said:
Here is something else that can contribute to unreliable cycling on a semi-auto when shooting in cold weather, and that is the extra clothing may cushion the recoil too much and result in inconsistent cycling of the action.

Semi-auto guns need a reasonably solid resistance to rearward movement for reliable functioning. Otherwise, the recoil will move the WHOLE GUN rearward and this lessens the momentum difference between the bolt assembly and the rest of the gun. When you have internal springs (such as semi-autos do), then these springs need something solid to push against. If the whole gun is moving rearward rather easily, then it lessens the "push/resistance" effect that the springs depend on for reliable functioning.
Are you sure? The cycling of the V3 seems to be entirely from the gas system and not due to the recoil at all. I've shot my V3 one handed and it cycled just fine. The gun is so soft shooting that I don't think that recoil plays any part of the cycling. My 2 cents worth.
 
#22 ·
Wowzer said:
Are you sure? The cycling of the V3 seems to be entirely from the gas system and not due to the recoil at all. I've shot my V3 one handed and it cycled just fine. The gun is so soft shooting that I don't think that recoil plays any part of the cycling. My 2 cents worth.
You are correct. While all recoil and inertia action guns need backing up at some point, some gas guns do not. I won $50 long ago when my 1100 functioned perfectly while hanging from a tree on two strings.
 
#23 ·
Virginian said:
Wowzer said:
Are you sure? The cycling of the V3 seems to be entirely from the gas system and not due to the recoil at all. I've shot my V3 one handed and it cycled just fine. The gun is so soft shooting that I don't think that recoil plays any part of the cycling. My 2 cents worth.
You are correct. While all recoil and inertia action guns need backing up at some point, some gas guns do not. I won $50 long ago when my 1100 functioned perfectly while hanging from a tree on two strings.
And what if someone took a different 1100 (or some other semi-auto) and did the same test and the gun did NOT cycle properly? While I haven't done the "suspended by strings" test, I have seen on several occasions when a gun wouldn't cycle properly when shot by one shooter (usually an inexperienced shooter), but the same gun with the same ammo would cycle properly with a different (more experienced) shooter. I can only conclude that it is due to the resistance (or lack thereof) to rearward movement of the gun provided by different shooters.

Whether the gun is gas operated, recoil operated, or inertia operated, the rearward force exerted by the firing of the shell has to be resisted by something in order for the action to cycle. Depending on the gun, this "something" might be the weight of the gun, the relative strength of the internal springs, the resistance to movement of the internal parts, or the resistance to rearward movement provided by the shooter. This can and does vary from gun to gun and shooter to shooter.

In the OP's case, apparently the cause of the failure to cycle was due to internal resistance of moving parts, i.e. the bolt needed lubrication in order to fully lock up so that the trigger would reset and could be pulled. About all we (or at least *I*) can conclude with any certainty is that there is no gun that is 100% foolproof and is going to operate 100% of the time regardless what conditions we change. Spring strength, relative weight of parts, lubrication, friction, and external resistance can all play a part in whether the gun operates as designed.
 
#24 ·
Ulysses said:
Virginian said:
Wowzer said:
Are you sure? The cycling of the V3 seems to be entirely from the gas system and not due to the recoil at all. I've shot my V3 one handed and it cycled just fine. The gun is so soft shooting that I don't think that recoil plays any part of the cycling. My 2 cents worth.
You are correct. While all recoil and inertia action guns need backing up at some point, some gas guns do not. I won $50 long ago when my 1100 functioned perfectly while hanging from a tree on two strings.
And what if someone took a different 1100 (or some other semi-auto) and did the same test and the gun did NOT cycle properly? While I haven't done the "suspended by strings" test, I have seen on several occasions when a gun wouldn't cycle properly when shot by one shooter (usually an inexperienced shooter), but the same gun with the same ammo would cycle properly with a different (more experienced) shooter. I can only conclude that it is due to the resistance (or lack thereof) to rearward movement of the gun provided by different shooters.

Whether the gun is gas operated, recoil operated, or inertia operated, the rearward force exerted by the firing of the shell has to be resisted by something in order for the action to cycle. Depending on the gun, this "something" might be the weight of the gun, the relative strength of the internal springs, the resistance to movement of the internal parts, or the resistance to rearward movement provided by the shooter. This can and does vary from gun to gun and shooter to shooter.

In the OP's case, apparently the cause of the failure to cycle was due to internal resistance of moving parts, i.e. the bolt needed lubrication in order to fully lock up so that the trigger would reset and could be pulled. About all we (or at least *I*) can conclude with any certainty is that there is no gun that is 100% foolproof and is going to operate 100% of the time regardless what conditions we change. Spring strength, relative weight of parts, lubrication, friction, and external resistance can all play a part in whether the gun operates as designed.
I'm not sure if we are using the phrase recoil operated in the same way. Of course the conservation of momentum requires that a bolt pushed rearward will meet resistance from the springs of the gun.

However, if a gas gun like the V3 fires, it is the expanding gas which provides the power to release the locking mechanism via the twin steel rods onto the bolt; the bolt cycles after the lockup mechanism releases. The gun could be accelerating forward or backward and it should have no effect on the bolt cycling.

The general concept of a recoil operated gun is such that the gunstock must be kept firmly in place, in order for the bolt to be released from the locking mechanism, thereby allowing it to cycle.

Again, my 2 cents worth.
 
#25 ·
I came across this thread today. I had the same issue with my V3 this Duck season. 2-3 times during the season, I'd fire the first shot and the trigger would not reset. I'd cycle the action manually, ejecting the second-chambered shell and then feeding the third shell and was able to get the shot off (actually got the two birds). This happened in fair weather (40º-50º) not using gloves.

Because of using immediate action when hunting, i didn't stop to examine if the hammer had cocked or if it hadn't cocked. Next time this happens, I''l take a look.

I've used the gun for three seasons. Has been very reliable with only a couple of hiccups early on with 3" steel shells.

I did clean the gun after the 2nd- 3rd time this happened. Finished out the season with no other trigger re-set issues. Seemed to me to be a trigger re-set issue. When I pulled the trigger, the hammer didn't drop, there was no click. When I pulled the trigger, nothing happened, no click, no hammer drop, trigger just went slack.

Just thought i'd post this up in case there are any others experiencing this.
 
#26 ·
riceducker said:
I came across this thread today. I had the same issue with my V3 this Duck season. 2-3 times during the season, I'd fire the first shot and the trigger would not reset. I'd cycle the action manually, ejecting the second-chambered shell and then feeding the third shell and was able to get the shot off (actually got the two birds). This happened in fair weather (40º-50º) not using gloves.

Because of using immediate action when hunting, i didn't stop to examine if the hammer had cocked or if it hadn't cocked. Next time this happens, I''l take a look.

I've used the gun for three seasons. Has been very reliable with only a couple of hiccups early on with 3" steel shells.

I did clean the gun after the 2nd- 3rd time this happened. Finished out the season with no other trigger re-set issues. Seemed to me to be a trigger re-set issue. When I pulled the trigger, the hammer didn't drop, there was no click. When I pulled the trigger, nothing happened, no click, no hammer drop, trigger just went slack.

Just thought i'd post this up in case there are any others experiencing this.
Riceducker, did you by chance talk to Remington about this? They might just ask you to send them the trigger assembly, particularly if they've not had an opportunity to " study" this as a potential issue for others. I'd be willing to bet they'd probably be willing to replace with a new assembly in return.
 
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