ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:39 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:33 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4209
Location: Western Tampa, FL
As has been repeatedly reported on here by forum members, Remington has been displaying excellent customer service; I think that they have completed their "turn around". I also think that some of their new shotgun offerings centered around the V3 are going to sell very well. Time will tell.

As for trying to dissect a company's change in management structure; I can only suggest that you buy enough of their stock and then attend their annual stock holder's meetings. Trying to determine if or what their management changes are going to do for a company from afar as a product buyer is IMO impossible.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:41 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:07 am
Posts: 71
This right here. We want cheap but we say quality and what do we buy? The cheapest thing we can find and cry when it’s not up to par with a quality item of yesteryear.
As I stated earlier me personally I have never seen anyone whine about their new $700 Wingmaster compared to an ‘older’ from the 70’s. I have seen people cry about the ‘PERCEIVED’ quality of their $200 box store Express vs an older Wingmaster.
When asked why didn’t you buy a Wingmaster I always get the “deer in the headlights” look, “I’m not paying that”, or “can’t afford it” answer EVERY TIME-ok.
I’m sorry a new Corolla is never going to be an older Lexus. Especially one that’s been kept in a climate controlled garage never used with a cover on it.- read the last TWO lines exactly how I wrote them and think about that primo 70s Wingmaster kept in a case in the back of the closet for 40+ years.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:01 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:03 am
Posts: 232
RandyWakeman wrote:
There used to be certain minimum standards to have the 'Browning' or 'Beretta' nameplates. Those days are gone... long gone.


This is what the "Remington sucks"/"just get a B-gun" crowd just can't quite get their heads around. Cheap Remingtons are cheap. Plenty of cheap, crude, and not well built "B-guns" are fairly expensive.


Last edited by S.davis on Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:14 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:51 pm
Posts: 35
Location: California
In my opinion even the Wingmaster regardless of what era are consider a very affordable field gun and a Express is pure junk, fork out the cash for a D grade at least. I hunt with a 870 200th anniversary limited with a factory exhibition stock set, I watch after it but I don't pretend it is some High Grade hence why I have F grades for that reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:20 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:56 am
Posts: 204
RandyWakeman wrote:
Just what is the definition of 'quality'? The vast majority of consumers want cheap and that is what they buy. Over and over again, the voice of the people votes for 'CHEAP.' It should surprise no one that cheap is what is offered.

Is the Ruger American a high quality rifle? A Savage Axis? Essentially unfinished guns do the big numbers. No one was ever forced to buy an Express vs. a Wingmaster, but that is what most people buy-- overwhelmingly.

Take a look at a Beretta 686. Every year, cheaper wood, cheaper engraving, cheaper finishes. Or, an A400 . . . plastic and fake wood.

Or, Browning.

Image

The current BPS is cratewood and matte.

Image

The 'Silver' . . . cheap and ugly at $1099. The faded image of John M. Browning won't help it.

You can call it "entry-level," "affordable," "wallet-friendly" or whatever you want. It is still cheap, cobby, cheezy, tin-can, crate-wood from Portugal. There used to be certain minimum standards to have the 'Browning' or 'Beretta' nameplates. Those days are gone... long gone.

You can call it polymer, technopolymer, or composite . . . it is still cheap plastic, and people apparently love it, love it, and can't get enough of it. :roll: Manufacturers are forced to make what people actually buy.

You can buy a Honda Ridgeline for $29,990 MSRP, or for $43,320 MSRP. Same vehicle, same frame, same engine, transmission, same cab, etc. It is just the trim level you want.


Completely agree with you Randy.

But when the doors don't line up well on any of them, regardless of trim....or the transmissions don't hold up as well as they used to (98-02 Accords) then do you keep blindly buying, or do you perhaps get a little more careful when you're buying?

We bought Hondas from 1988 until the present. Quality control on them isn't what it used to be either. Still good, but not what it was in the early 90's. And yes, I passed on some generations of Hondas because of issues that popped up during those specific years, like the 98-02 Accord transmissions.


Last edited by Jeepwm69 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 2833
greekspec2 wrote:
In my opinion even the Wingmaster regardless of what era are consider a very affordable field gun and a Express is pure junk, fork out the cash for a D grade at least. I hunt with a 870 200th anniversary limited with a factory exhibition stock set, I watch after it but I don't pretend it is some High Grade hence why I have F grades for that reason.


“ a Express is pure junk” . A rather sweeping generalization, IMO. Mine certainly isn’t, though it’s no Wingmaster. It does precisely what I bought it for, and actually does it rather well.

_________________
Fabarm L4S Initial Hunter
Remington 870 Super Magnum Turkey
Remington V3 Walnut
Remington 870 Express (Realtree Xtra camo)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:53 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:56 am
Posts: 204
Germansheperd wrote:
This right here. We want cheap but we say quality and what do we buy? The cheapest thing we can find and cry when it’s not up to par with a quality item of yesteryear.
As I stated earlier me personally I have never seen anyone whine about their new $700 Wingmaster compared to an ‘older’ from the 70’s. I have seen people cry about the ‘PERCEIVED’ quality of their $200 box store Express vs an older Wingmaster.
When asked why didn’t you buy a Wingmaster I always get the “deer in the headlights” look, “I’m not paying that”, or “can’t afford it” answer EVERY TIME-ok.
I’m sorry a new Corolla is never going to be an older Lexus. Especially one that’s been kept in a climate controlled garage never used with a cover on it.- read the last TWO lines exactly how I wrote them and think about that primo 70s Wingmaster kept in a case in the back of the closet for 40+ years.



I agree. If we're going to go with the car comparison, we started buying Hondas in the late 80's. My grandfather lived next door to us, had owned the GMC/Buick/Pontiac dealership for decades, but we got tired of taking the Buicks and GMC's back in constantly to have shoddy build quality fixed, even when it was free/done under warranty. New 83 GMC had the gas gauge, speedometer, and A/C all dead within a year of buying it new. All under warranty so it's ok? NO, not ok. The final straw was a brand new Buick Lesabre wagon that had a roof rack that leaked and ruined the headliner less than a week after it came off the lot. It still ran. Stuff worked on it. It was comfortable, but it wasn't RIGHT. GM quality control, surprise surprise, went to crap. We started buying Hondas then. The Lesabre wasn't the only problem car we had, just the straw that broke the camel's back. That car was highly optioned (even had a factory CB!) but it wasn't well made. Not ALL GM vehicles had problems at the time, but the number of GM vehicles that did have problems was much higher than it had been in the past.

The Hondas weren't luxury cars but they had excellent build quality.

The original poster asked if the build quality has fallen on Remingtons like it has on Marlins, since the buyout. My opinion is that, YES, it did fall off. You want to have a different opinion, that's fine. That's your right. I doubt he expected to get all "yay" or all "nay".

The thing is, in the days of the web, there are a helluva lot of people who have had problems with the Cerberus era Remingtons (not just the shotguns, but the whole line) and the Remlins. I guess we just ignore all that though, right?

For those who keep saying I'm comparing an Express to a Wingmaster, NO I'm not. I'm comparing Dupont era Wingmasters to Cerberus era Wingmasters, and the number of problem guns went WAY up during the Cerberus era.

Try google folks. Or just go to your local gun shop and talk to them. Or look over at the guy in the dove field next to you with a jammomatic. I didn't say they were ALL bad. I said the chance of getting a bad one is much higher if you buy one from the Cerberus era.

So again, I will repeat ad naseum, LOOK VERY CLOSELY AT THE GUN YOU ARE BUYING AND DON'T ASSUME IT IS GOOD BECAUSE IT'S A REMINGTON.

Or even better, find an older one where the risk of getting lemon was much lower.

I didn't say don't buy one period, I just said to be wary.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:54 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:56 am
Posts: 204
Virginian wrote:
I always wondered what happened to "Mister Know-IT-All" after Bullwinkle went off the air.



I don't know it all, but I'm very opinionated. LOL.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:59 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 2833
S.davis wrote:
RandyWakeman wrote:
There used to be certain minimum standards to have the 'Browning' or 'Beretta' nameplates. Those days are gone... long gone.


This is what the "Remington sucks"/"just get a B-gun" crowd just can't quite get there heads around. Cheap Remingtons are cheap. Plenty of cheap, crude, and not well built "B-guns" are fairly expensive.


:lol: That`s actually rather funny!

_________________
Fabarm L4S Initial Hunter
Remington 870 Super Magnum Turkey
Remington V3 Walnut
Remington 870 Express (Realtree Xtra camo)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:00 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:42 pm
Posts: 373
Location: In The Woods Of The SC Low Country
RandyWakeman wrote:
Marlin Mike wrote:
I am going to buy my grandson a new 20 gauge auto this weekend. I have always owned owned 1100's. I know that Remington quality on Marlin has been very poor since they bought the company.


Actually, no-- Marlin product has never been better. Most of the old Marlin line made by Marlin was made without production prints, on old beat-up tooling. Current Marlin lever guns are a big step up.


How many new ones do you own and shoot? Bet not a one. The JM Marlin rifles were VERY WELL made as to fit and function. Remington screwed up ALL Marlin rifles for about 5 years. They may be getting better now. Ever been on the marlin forum? FYI...Currently I own 7 Marlin JM rifles. All are perfect. Can't that for Remington Marlins currently made.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:56 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 8:20 pm
Posts: 14279
Location: Williamsburg, Virginia
If it wasn't for Remington buying them there would be no Marlin.

_________________
What could have happened... did.
I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:35 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:56 am
Posts: 204
Virginian wrote:
If it wasn't for Remington buying them there would be no Marlin.


Eh, possibly. Some other company might have picked Marlin up, potentially without screwing it up as badly as Cerberus did.

Or it might have gone the way of so many other gun makers and gone under completely.

I don't necessarily see keeping a name alive and producing a lesser product under that same name a good thing. Just leads to confusion when people hear about how great something is and then can't understand why they get a sub-par item. Happens all the time though.

In the Jeep community, Optima batteries were the gold standard for a long time. Johnson Controls bought them out, moved production to Mexico, and they're junk now. Look the same, cost more than they did when they were good, but they're crap. Same thing that happened with Marlin.

Hopefully they'll get better with time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:07 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 8:20 pm
Posts: 14279
Location: Williamsburg, Virginia
Also of note, Remington did not benefit from the massive influx of money that accompanied the politically motivated switch to a NATO caliber handgun. A decision the military is still clawing it's way back from every chance they get.

_________________
What could have happened... did.
I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:49 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:24 pm
Posts: 251
Location: Tennessee
The Happy Kaboomer wrote:
RandyWakeman wrote:
Marlin Mike wrote:
I am going to buy my grandson a new 20 gauge auto this weekend. I have always owned owned 1100's. I know that Remington quality on Marlin has been very poor since they bought the company.


Actually, no-- Marlin product has never been better. Most of the old Marlin line made by Marlin was made without production prints, on old beat-up tooling. Current Marlin lever guns are a big step up.


How many new ones do you own and shoot? Bet not a one. The JM Marlin rifles were VERY WELL made as to fit and function. Remington screwed up ALL Marlin rifles for about 5 years. They may be getting better now. Ever been on the marlin forum? FYI...Currently I own 7 Marlin JM rifles. All are perfect. Can't that for Remington Marlins currently made.


I had a brand new JM Marlin with a broken stock from the factory. The front sight was also canted. The “JM Marlins were all perfect” is a myth.

_________________
Remington 870 Express SuperMag Hardwoods Camo 26”
Remington 870 Express 26”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:11 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 5238
Location: Miami Florida and The Republic of Panama
RandyWakeman wrote:
Jeepwm69 wrote:
LOL. They changed the name. Still the same conglomerate of companies that were bought and then used as leverage to borrow money while destroying the actual companies.



Not true. Cerberus is G-O-N-E.

And, Marlin is now doing extremely well. https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... gust-2019/

GunBroker.com Announces Top Selling Firearms for August 2019


Lever-Action Rifles
1. Marlin 1895
2. Marlin 1894
3. Marlin 336


My faith in the American shotgun buyer has been restored looking at this list.

I was expecting cheap Turk O/U's to be dominating sales until

I scrolled down and saw Browning holding the top 3 positions.

_________________
Joe Biden Supports The Fascist One World Government Movement.
"Build Back Better" Is Their Slogan. And He Sniffs Little Girls.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:56 am
Posts: 204
RandyWakeman wrote:
Marlin Mike wrote:
I am going to buy my grandson a new 20 gauge auto this weekend. I have always owned owned 1100's. I know that Remington quality on Marlin has been very poor since they bought the company.


Actually, no-- Marlin product has never been better. Most of the old Marlin line made by Marlin was made without production prints, on old beat-up tooling. Current Marlin lever guns are a big step up.


This popped up today on the Marlin Owners page. I think I'll stick with my JM marked Marlins.

This could have resulted in serious injury or death. Quality control is hit or miss, and when you have a controlled explosion under your face, that's not acceptable.

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marl ... 895cb.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:30 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9101
Location: Louisiana
Every gun manufacturer has some lemons, none of them turns out perfect rifles 100% of the time. I believe that the quality of current Marlins is generally good, at least that is what I have gathered from MarlinOwners.com. The real test is the manufacturer's customer service and whether the lemons are made good or replaced, IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:39 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:56 am
Posts: 204
lossking wrote:
Every gun manufacturer has some lemons, none of them turns out perfect rifles 100% of the time. I believe that the quality of current Marlins is generally good, at least that is what I have gathered from MarlinOwners.com. The real test is the manufacturer's customer service and whether the lemons are made good or replaced, IMO.


That's a little worse than a lemon. That's someone on the assembly line who just shrugged and sent a ticking time bomb down the line and out the door, and the fact that no one looked closely enough at it to catch it is terrifying.

I do think customer service after the sale is supposed to be pretty good, but if you read the thread, you'll note that some folks (depending on location) have to jump through a LOT of hoops when such a gun runs out into circulation. Its not as simple as sending it back in, getting it fixed, and having it come back out.

I just think most all of the manufacturers now have semi-skilled labor assembling parts instead of craftsmen building guns.

I do wonder what else that particular employee, and those checking the gun out afterwards, have let out the door. You would think that today they would be able to track a serial number back to the person who assembled it. Someone shouldn't have a job anymore.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:53 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9101
Location: Louisiana
I bought a NIB 20ga autoloader from one of the major, old line gun manufacturers (not Remington) just a few months ago, and had to send the barrel back before firing a shot to have the choke tube threads chased. The modified choke which came with the gun came out with difficulty and would not screw back in, nor would any of the other tubes. After the barrel came back, I pulled the trigger group from the receiver to clean the rust preservative from the internals. Well, it came out with difficulty and simply would not go back in no way no how. I suppose the receiver opening was to minimum specs and the trigger group frame was to maximum specs. In any case, I then had to return the entire gun for service, still having never fired it. When it came back this time, it was fine and has been flawless since.

A friend of mine spent $6,000 on a semi-custom O/U from a well known maker and had to return it three or four times for various issues, and the gun is still not perfect.

All I can say is, it happens.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Current production quality of 1100/1187 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:41 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:42 pm
Posts: 373
Location: In The Woods Of The SC Low Country
IN 2019 I bought a remington 870 express in 410. Out of the box it wouldn't lock up half the time. Shell released from the magazine would jam under the open bolt into the trigger assembly. Sent it back and came back working like it was supposed to. They replaced the trigger assembly, magazine tube/spring and follower.
Bought one of those $249.00 11-87's in 20 ga. It woudln't run a magazine of ANY brand of shell without hanging up. It's back at remington now.
Like I did with taurus I won't buy ANY new remington in the future. Should have bought one of those Turshish 20 ga auto loaders. From reports those sold by Mossberg/Weatherby and Tristar are very dependable guns.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 47MolineRTU, BigDeeeeeeee, Bing [Bot], Captdave221, casonet, Cfelix10, Chris Ferres, clayaddiction, clays99, ClaysOnlyShooter, dallen749, dickgtax, double20, dubob, ebcjr, ellisjre, federal, Fitasc2, Gadwall, geometric, gomerdog, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], grade6man, [email protected], HenryPeter, hopper810, Husker90, Irish Red & White, John Henry, johnlinchmann, jrmev, Keperkey, Leg, LilBoog, llc, lossking, lt0026, luckydogg, MartyFischer, McFarmer, Mdl66, Mike McAlpine, mikeydio, mtgrs737, newgooser2020, Nicoli7153, OklaMike, Oldandrusty, oldshotty, painter*, potatodigger1, Rack-N-Roy, Road Man, Rockett0, Rooster booster, Rudolph31, saskbooknut, sera, Starstorm, Tidefanatic, Vette Jockey2, Wheelspin, WillTravel, zxcvbnm


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice