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 Post subject: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Seems like it's about to happen . . .

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-remingtonoutdoor-bankruptcy-exclusive/exclusive-u-s-gunmaker-remington-seeks-financing-to-file-for-bankruptcy-sources-idUSKBN1FT04C?il=0&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social


Quote:
(Reuters) - Remington Outdoor Company Inc, one of the largest U.S. makers of firearms, has reached out to banks and credit investment funds in search of financing that will allow it to file for bankruptcy, people familiar with the matter said on Thursday.

The move comes as Remington reached a forbearance agreement with its creditors this week following a missed coupon payment on its debt, the sources said. The company has been working with investment bank Lazard Ltd (LAZ.N) on options to restructure its $950 million debt pile, Reuters reported last month.

Remington is seeking debtor-in-possession financing that will allow it to fund is operations once it files for bankruptcy, the sources said. The size of the financing and timing of Remington’s bankruptcy plans could not be learned . . .

The Madison, North Carolina-based gun manufacturer faces a maturity of an approximately $550 million term loan in 2019. Remington also has $250 million of bonds that come due in 2020 and are trading at a significant discount to their face value . . .

Remington’s sales plunged 27 percent in the first nine months of 2017, resulting in a $28 million operating loss.




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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Winchester, Savage, Stevens, AH Fox, old Ithaca, Colt a few times, H&R, I probably missed a few.......and now maybe Remington, maybe not.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:30 pm 
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It's not fun getting sucked into an equity situation. The squeeze that puts on is often the final croak. That said, if a business is not being well run and let's it's top and bottom lines go to sh*t the reaper will come stalking... How many ways can you say EBITDA? A well run business is not going to allow itself to be affected so deeply by the market... forecasting, planning, marketing, PD, the right good quality products at the right time with good margins and you can ride the swells..
These guys choked their chicken by pulling up stakes in Illion and going on a spending spree to run so many other locations...so much for tax deferments and sweetheart deals to relocate. They'll survive, restructured with fewer employees, fewer factories, fewer products and maybe some better focus...it's going to be ugly before it gets better.

Lazard...."restructuring debt"..if you don't meet your milestones...BOHICA. Better start bringing some cardboard boxes in to the office.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:58 am 
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This could effect their Customers Service such as the Life Time Warranty what it covers also this could push for reduction of What's in the box ? .They may cut cost by guns not coming with extra chokes theyve done it for years with the 1100 and 870 lines and faired well or perhaps pushing if you buy they higher dollar Versa Max you get a lifetime warranty and if you buy the V3 and lower you get a 5 to 7 year warranty . The failure of the R51 pistol could also be the culprit to loss of earnings .


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:57 am 
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Bladeswitcher wrote:
Seems like it's about to happen . . .


Glad my Black Friday rebate check arrived the other day...

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Quote:
Better start bringing some cardboard boxes in to the office.


Which should have been taking place all along.

I could be wrong, but I'll bet the number of overhead people is greater than those who produce product.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
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Nothing new for the folks at Ilion. In 1887-8, E. Remington & Sons was on the rocks and Marcellus Hartley along with Winchester Repeating Arms Co. bailed them out forming Remington Arms Co. Hartley buying out Winchester's share in the 1890s. In 1911, Marcellus Hartley Dodge combined his arms and ammunition companies as Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. In 1920, Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. found themselves having way over expanded for war production for The Great War. Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. was dissolved somehow spinning off a lot of debt and excess capacity and a leaner new corporation, Remington Arms Co., Inc. was formed.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:46 pm
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Location: Western NY
TimberHog wrote:
This could effect their Customers Service such as the Life Time Warranty what it covers also this could push for reduction of What's in the box ? .They may cut cost by guns not coming with extra chokes theyve done it for years with the 1100 and 870 lines and faired well or perhaps pushing if you buy they higher dollar Versa Max you get a lifetime warranty and if you buy the V3 and lower you get a 5 to 7 year warranty . The failure of the R51 pistol could also be the culprit to loss of earnings .


Probably not...warranty is a reserve cost so they make a calculation and put money to the side to cover it..you would squeeze on quality to reduce the cost but that takes time. More likely ways to rebuild the bottom line are to reduce headcount.
They could reduce options..that would lower product cost without affecting warranty costs (quality)...it's unlikely to cost them customers so it's possible.
More likely is they keep the lifetime warranty in effect (major investment there already) and eliminate Customer Service staff...so longer waiting time for service, more focus on shorter calls etc...
Managing tiered warranty is a nightmare..no one would want to touch that..it would be a beast to administer....only a young overpaid MBA hired from another industry might try that..yeah, it happens...


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Location: NE Oklahoma
Zbigniew wrote:
Quote:
Better start bringing some cardboard boxes in to the office.


Which should have been taking place all along.

I could be wrong, but I'll bet the number of overhead people is greater than those who produce product.

This would largely depend on the facility. If it's just production work, then, no, it's unlikely that exempt salaried staff would exceed hourly workers. Now, if it includes groups such as engineering and the attendant testing and development area, then you would almost certainly be correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Deleted duplicate post.


Last edited by Vette Jockey on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:57 pm 
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It's going to be interesting to see the out come !


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:42 am 
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I have not heard anything new. If it happens, could be a big opportunity for some other firm to take over the production of 870, 1100, V3, and Versamax.

Mossberg would be the best to take that on, because they are privately owned, I think. Corporations have a lot of risk of being run bad, because the people running it are employees, not owners, and most of them run the company in a way that enriches themselves, not the stock holders.

Companies that are run by the owners have a better record of staying solvent, but even they have their troubles, the market place takes no prisoners.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:57 am
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JoeCool wrote:
I have not heard anything new. If it happens, could be a big opportunity for some other firm to take over the production of 870, 1100, V3, and Versamax.

Mossberg would be the best to take that on, because they are privately owned, I think. Corporations have a lot of risk of being run bad, because the people running it are employees, not owners, and most of them run the company in a way that enriches themselves, not the stock holders.

Companies that are run by the owners have a better record of staying solvent, but even they have their troubles, the market place takes no prisoners.


I don't necessarily agree with this, and to the contrary, often see the reverse.

Corporations have checks and balances in place to protect shareholders - not employees. That is both a good and bad thing, as most things are. Decisions are made to impact share value often in spite of the fact that it may have troubling effects down the road. Yes, senior leadership are often invented by variable compensation that an bias their decisions, however at least there is some semblance of focus on duty to shareholders.

Family owned companies are very often extraordinarily poorly run, with bad decision making, a lack of the fundamentals of business, and a reliance on just "product". This has resulted in many a good family business going under, as they provide excellent service, but cannot sustain operations and/or growth. Furthermore, as the business grows and new "family" becomes involved, very very very they don't have the same motivations and ethics that the "founders" had, resulting in a focus on just cashing out all that they could.

Private ownership isn't necessarily "being run by the owners" either, as investment groups can differ significantly in how they provide oversight to their investments - with some focusing on the maximization of the value of the assets rather than the future of the business, and others deciding to invest in the business as a viable entity.

Some of the very worst run businesses I've seen have been privately owned. Some of the best run businesses I've ever seen have been post IPO. If fact, I've attempted to stay as clear as possible from privately owned business in terms of my (2nd) career.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 11:44 am 
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I could be WAY off, but I thought Remington was out from under bankruptcy protection now, with reorganization complete(?). I don`t know, however, what their ownership situation might be. I thought Randy would have weighed in by now.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
I could be WAY off, but I thought Remington was out from under bankruptcy protection now . . .



This thread is two years old. Somebody decided we needed to revive it.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:14 pm 
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JoeCool wrote:
I have not heard anything new. If it happens, could be a big opportunity for some other firm to take over the production of 870, 1100, V3, and Versamax.



Old news. " Remington exited bankruptcy in May 2018, less than two months after filing for protection under Ch. 11 laws. Remington's quick exit from bankruptcy was due to a pre-approved restructuring plan that was supported by 97% of its creditors."

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:37 pm 
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I suspect Remington's debt load is substantial and with the creditor's currently running the company, they probably are not inclined to discount it much for a potential buyer. I have observed this scenario before and over time the creditors often decide to "take their medicine" and discount the debt (half a loaf versus no loaf) or the market will catch up to their current asking price. Given what's going on in the country nowadays I suspect the first option is the one eventually coming to fruition. Had Remington been running a bunch of military contracts they probably would've been snapped up pronto.

Hopefully, the creditors will listen to marketing and develop/expand more product line to encourage more growth which is likely the only real answer to the situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 10:07 am 
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mea culpa wrote:
I suspect Remington's debt load is substantial and with the creditor's currently running the company, they probably are not inclined to discount it much for a potential buyer. I have observed this scenario before and over time the creditors often decide to "take their medicine" and discount the debt (half a loaf versus no loaf) or the market will catch up to their current asking price. Given what's going on in the country nowadays I suspect the first option is the one eventually coming to fruition. Had Remington been running a bunch of military contracts they probably would've been snapped up pronto.

Hopefully, the creditors will listen to marketing and develop/expand more product line to encourage more growth which is likely the only real answer to the situation.


Huh? Remington EXITED BR. Creditors obviously factor in to some decisions, but you’re post makes no sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:53 am 
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Rooster booster wrote:
mea culpa wrote:
I suspect Remington's debt load is substantial and with the creditor's currently running the company, they probably are not inclined to discount it much for a potential buyer. I have observed this scenario before and over time the creditors often decide to "take their medicine" and discount the debt (half a loaf versus no loaf) or the market will catch up to their current asking price. Given what's going on in the country nowadays I suspect the first option is the one eventually coming to fruition. Had Remington been running a bunch of military contracts they probably would've been snapped up pronto.

Hopefully, the creditors will listen to marketing and develop/expand more product line to encourage more growth which is likely the only real answer to the situation.


Huh? Remington EXITED BR. Creditors obviously factor in to some decisions, but you’re post makes no sense.


As it's privately held the public access to financials is limited however, depending upon what their actual profitability numbers are, IMO the creditors would definitely have control of the purse strings especially when it comes to R&D costs for new product line(s) or expansion. What new product lines has Remington came out with, post-bankruptcy?



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