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20 Gauge "do it all" gun / gauge

22K views 52 replies 22 participants last post by  Pine Creek/Dave 
#1 ·
I have seen a number of articles lately that seem to indicate a resurgence in popularity for 20 gauge guns for all kinds of uses. I have seen things on 20 gauge with appropriate loads as being go to guns for ducks, deer and turkey and not just upland game over dogs.

Now, I am not much more than a novice shotgunner, and I would say that I aspire to be a hunter more than I actually hunt. However, I have a Remington model 17 that was a graduation gift (fully restored with new wood, reblued, and screw in chokes) many moons ago that I enjoy shooting.

I had to get rid of my 12 gauge model 37 about a half dozen years ago to pay for an operation for my dog. So since then I have been shooting just 20 gauge. I have often wondered if I needed to re-invest in a new 12 gauge gun so that I would have a do it gun.

I know that honestly, its probably better to have a gun that was specialized to the activity you want to do but that is not going to be in the cards for me from a financial perspective.
Anyway, I don't have any issues with 12 gauge guns other than I like shooting 20 gauge more. So I would be happy to see a rise in popularity of 20 gauge guns.

Am I miss reading the situation or is 20 gauge popularity for do it all guns or as a do it all gauge on the rise?
 
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#27 ·
geometric,

If you would like to read more about the 20 gauge double gun and its actual usage while hunting, pick up Michael McIntosh's book Shotguns & Shooting (Three) he does a real nice job explaining the 20 gauge double gun. He liked using his 20 gauge to hunt Grouse and Woodcock here in Pa quite a bit. He shot the gun well and killed Grouse most every time we were out, his opinion was more realistic than some of the others like Zutz. We discussed Fox & L.C. Smith 20 gauge guns quite a bit and I respected his knowledge when it came to his favorite Box Lock double gun.

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
 
#28 ·
Thanks Dave,
I learned a lot from reading Don Zutz but I definitely didn't agree with everything he said. My philosophy has always been, "Show me somebody that always agrees with anybody & I'll show you somebody that doesn't do his own thinking." Constructive debate on things we don't agree on is one of the ways we learn.
 
#29 ·
The HTL pellets have made the smaller gauges relevant for waterfowl as they perform feats in the field that lead pellets could only dream about. My 16 gauge shotguns are now the "big bores" and the 28's are quickly becoming favorites. If I did have to kill something flying in the stratosphere, the SP10 with 1 1/2 ounce of #5 TSS is the ticket.
 
#30 ·
mea culpa,
Good point, they also make it feasible to load lower velocity shells with lighter loads, producing long range killing effectiveness without jaw breaking recoil. Cost is, of course the down side. Lead & lead substitutes still work great for much of shotgun hunting at upland game ranges at greatly reduced cost. Even steel will work in close, even though I hate the very thought of shooting steel! Bismuth works well for most waterfowl hunting although on very windy cold days, I have had tough Canada geese that were well hit fly a considerable distances before dropping. I have killed plenty of ducks with a 20 but haven't used one for ducks since the steel shot fiasco became law. My pretty much standard duck loads are 1.25 oz. bismuth or hevi shot (or equivalent) in the 12 ga. with whatever hull works. When 10 lb. geese are the game (or sand hill cranes), I use heavier loads of bigger shot with roughly lead shot equivalent loads or #2 hevi shot (13gr./oz. density). I like the buffered 1.5 oz. 10 ga. load at about 1200 fps..
You don't need 1400+ fps loads with heavier than lead shot. I find the old live pigeon load of 1.25 oz. of lead @ 1200 +/- fps. in the 12 ga. to be great for pheasant
 
#32 ·
mea culpa said:
The HTL pellets have made the smaller gauges relevant for waterfowl as they perform feats in the field that lead pellets could only dream about. My 16 gauge shotguns are now the "big bores" and the 28's are quickly becoming favorites. If I did have to kill something flying in the stratosphere, the SP10 with 1 1/2 ounce of #5 TSS is the ticket.
Who can afford to hunt waterfowl with $5 a shell TSS?
 
#33 ·
lossking said:
mea culpa said:
The HTL pellets have made the smaller gauges relevant for waterfowl as they perform feats in the field that lead pellets could only dream about. My 16 gauge shotguns are now the "big bores" and the 28's are quickly becoming favorites. If I did have to kill something flying in the stratosphere, the SP10 with 1 1/2 ounce of #5 TSS is the ticket.
Who can afford to hunt waterfowl with $5 a shell TSS?
Trust fund babies paying retail for commercial loads which is why I
load TSS for ~$2.39/round and HW-15 for ~$1.89/round in one ounce loads for 20 & 28 gauge. The cost is a few cents more for one and one eighth ounce 16 gauge loads.
 
#34 ·
lossking said:
mea culpa said:
The HTL pellets have made the smaller gauges relevant for waterfowl as they perform feats in the field that lead pellets could only dream about. My 16 gauge shotguns are now the "big bores" and the 28's are quickly becoming favorites. If I did have to kill something flying in the stratosphere, the SP10 with 1 1/2 ounce of #5 TSS is the ticket.
Who can afford to hunt waterfowl with $5 a shell TSS?
LOTS of people. Why do you think TSS loads are made?

An enthusiastic waterfowler may well have a $10,000 SxS ATV, a $2000 trailer to pull it, $1000 in decoys and calls, another $1000 or more in waders, boots, jackets, gloves, $5000 (or more) invested in a couple of dogs, and might take it on on the road with a $50,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk. You probably want a hunting license and a shotgun as well. With gas, food, vet bills, insurance, regardless of how you add it all up, it can be a big fat chunk of change. Then, there are blinds and perhaps a boat. That's why some don't view ammunition cost as a large percentage of total hunting costs. If traveling to South Dakota for pheasants, with a limit of three roosters a day, ammunition becomes a very small factor indeed. Your mileage and your costs will vary.

Nor are all TSS loads $5 a shell. These Federal loads are half of that figure: https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/fed ... 450fps-3-9 .

Nor are crummy steel loads free. If you are mallard hunting here, it is 4 birds per day. (The daily duck bag limit is six (6) and may include no more than four (4) mallards (two hens), three (3) wood ducks, three (3) scaup, two (2) redheads, two (2) black ducks, two (2) canvasback, two (2) pintail, and one (1) mottled duck.)

If you hit what you're shooting at, that's ten bucks a day for ammo . . . still ten bucks short of a decent pizza.

 
#35 ·
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nobody hits all of the ducks they shoot at. In fact, with the possible exception of dove hunting, more shells per duck are probably expended than any other form of bird hunting. And don't tell me it's because most hunters shoot steel for waterfowl, because the same was the case when lead was legal.

TSS is far more popular for turkey hunting than waterfowl and with good reason. Most of us aren't "fat cats" who can afford the stuff. Plus, if you can shoot halfway decently, steel does a good job over decoys. There's really no need for TSS in a blind unless you prefer shooting a subgauge.
 
#36 ·
Yea, TSS is kind of pricey. I haven't gone to that level yet but I do shoot heavier than lead shot. Not everything I hunt requires that level of performance. So you take a 6 lb. 20 ga., load it up with as much TSS as you can cram in a 3" hull & what have you got? It might be a pretty good turkey gun if the recoil doesn't give you a nose bleed but what kind of follow through will it have for pass shooting geese?? Ask any competition clay shooter that shoots a 12 ga. why he shoots a 12 ga.. I doubt many will tell you it is because it has a heavier shot charge or because it will brake clays at a greater distance. It is not all black or white. When I spend $500 in gas & who knows how much else in other cost to travel 1,600 or so miles to hunt, I want to shoot decent ammo, but there is the old point of diminishing returns thing. There are applications for TSS shot but I am not sure I have one in my hunting portfolio. My needs have peaked with 13 gr. per cm tungsten alloy. Bismuth will do about 95% of what I need & I still shoot a lot of lead. If I did shoot TSS, I would shoot it in a gun with good handling qualities for pass shooting, like adequate weight & good follow through!
 
#37 ·
Hi,

What this all boils down to is the fact that we have more choices in shot types than at any other time in history. And for the shooter, it comes down to making the correct choice of shot type for the task at hand.

Choose wisely, and you will have success. Choose poorly, and you will not have all the success that could have been had.
 
#40 ·
Gentlemen,

No matter how much I happen to love my 20 gauge L.C. Smith double guns, seldom will I shoot Ducks with them. Every once in a while in the old days, I would take a wood Duck with my silver breech L.C. Smith double 20 gun. I was very careful taking the Woodies with it, as I jump shot them along Pine Creek or Laurel Hill Creek. I hate to see wounded Woodies, it goes against every thing I hold ethical. Killed many more Woodies outright with my 16 gauge guns, and have never lost a Woody especially when Sampson my SM was alive to retrieve them. Now for a Mearns Quail gun I love my L.C. Smith 20 gauge double guns, can't beat them in the high AZ mountains, along the Mex border. Great guns for grouse after the leaves have mostly fallen, love the light weight and perfect swing of those balanced 20 gauge guns. Would love to acquire a 30" barreled L.C. Smith 20 gauge for Mearns Quail hunting, in fact I am still looking for a nice one.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Ofcourse there is not much that beats my #2 L.C. Smith 20 gauge, sleeved for 28 for hunting Mearns Quail. Heck of a Grouse gun also.

 
#41 ·
Gentlemen,

Looks like I just picked up another pre 13 L.C. Smith 20 gauge double gun, DT with 28" Barrels weighs about 5.8 lbs. This is just terrible, it will definitely cut into my 16 gauge hammer gun usage. Just terrible I tell ya. Post some pictures when I get them.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
 
#43 ·
oyeme,

If L.C. Smith would have engineered and produced a 28 gauge on a true 28 gauge frame, I would probably own a half dozen of them, I do own the modern Zabala made L.C. Smith 28 gauge. Got a hunch I am going to love this pre 13, 20 gauge with the 28" barrels, weighs 5.8 oz.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

My 1926 L.C. Smith 20 gauge, SST, BT with 26" Barrels below the modern L.C. Smith 28 gauge made by Zabala for Marlin.
 
#44 ·
I always liked the pre 13 guns. I had a post 1913 20 ga. FWE that I had a bunch of custom work done to including restocking. I had a 20 gauge 30 inch set of barrels from an Ideal grade fitted to it and then had the chambers of the original 26 inch barrels, sleeved to 28 gauge.

In that way, I had a 20/28 gauge plus the 20 gauge with 30 inch barrels each with their own forend. Some nice game scene engraving and complete refinishing to include new case colors and it is a very handsome and fun gun. A friend had to have it so I sold it few years ago. In case anyone is wondering, 28 gauge shells in a 20 gauge bore gun work perfectly.
 
#45 ·
oyeme,

Sounds like you had a real nice Ideal grade gun, should have held on to the one! Sounds like a real nice Grouse and Woodcock gun, nice for Quail also.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
 
#46 ·
The LC Smith 20 gauge A3 featured in 3 issues of the Double Gun Journal to me is the epitome of fine gun making in the US. Now, THAT'S a gun! I special ordered just those three issues so I could check it out thoroughly.
 
#47 ·
oyeme,

I agree 100%, that is one fine L.C. Smith Best gun, however I have always liked the #5 gun a little better.
Just a matter of personal preference!

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

 
#48 ·
So, coming from a different angle. Europe. Where several countries, including the one I live in, has limitations on how many guns you can own. Here (more specifically Scandinavia) most people own 12:s for the same reasons stated here by those much more knowledgable than me. However, at this point in life (late 40s), and with fairly limited choice when it comes to the number of guns I can own and/or afford, I have to be picky.

So as I am scaling down further and moving to 28 gauge (which is a choice bordering on insane over here) I've sold a 20 gauge and a rifle (mostly to afford the 28 gauge).

I've kept a 12 gauge sxs that my grandmother gave me when I started hunting but I don't expect it so see much use and so that's more about not being able to part from it (and it's a beautiful true sidelock with an english straight stock...).

So, sorry for being round about; The 20 gauge might not be the ultimate do it all but it certainly can do a lot of all of it and if I were in the even tighter position of having to choose only one shotgun (a position in which I've been and could certainly be in again) a 20 gauge would be my choice I think. I've used one on everything from Snipe to Ducks and the occasional misguided Canada goose.
 
#49 ·
I have an Elsey 20 & a Elsey pre13, maybe 2. My steel barreled 10 ga. could be but but I haven't researched the the date it was made. The 20 is not pre13 but Pop bought it for me in 1961 for the exorbitant sun of $125. It instantly became my favorite gun & remains so today!
 
#50 ·
Gentlemen,

Received some pictures of my just acquired 1910, L.C. Smith 20 gauge 00 double gun, I am quite happy that I was able to add this old gun to my L.C. Smith Collection. Will have the stocks and the breech work historically restored after using it to Grouse & Woodcock hunt this season. The gun is in good shape, however I like the guns I keep in my L.C. Smith collection to be pretty much factory original, so I restore them to that state. The old pre 13 double gun weighs 5.6 lbs, splinter fore-end, choked M/M, has 3 position safety and DT with 28" Armor Steel barrels.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man









 
#51 ·
My dad hunted upland with an 11-48 12 ga. for about 25 years....then he got an 1100 lightweight in 20 gauge.
Rarely did he ever pull the 12 out again.
I've shot that 1100. Its a nice gun.
I've got an H&R in 20 ga. Kicked hard because the stock was a little shorter than it should've been, but I just put a Limbsaver on it and its great now. Fits me and lessens the recoil.
Short barrel (25") makes it a bit whippy, but I've learned to work with it.
I can hit with it almost as well as with the 1100.
...SO...for upland its a dream...but as a "do-all" gun, I think the shot charges might be a bit light as the pellets get bigger.
Still, you can get some heavy shot charges with 20 ga., but then you have to compromise the powder charge to make it fit.
Then there's the deer slug...20 ga. is .615". I shot a deer with a .30-30 when I was 14 and the bullet expanded to .630".
So the 20 isn't even as big as an expanded .30 cal round and the rifle round is far more efficient at dispatching medium/large game.
The 12 shoots a slug almost 3/4" diameter and its much heavier. The bigger slug will shock the animal more when it hits and will develop a better wound channel.
While I love my 20's, I think, as one gun to do it all, I'd rather stick with a 12 ga.
 
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