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 Post subject: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:52 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Posts: 19
I Just purchased a beautiful Browning Citori 725 Trap Combo with 32" and 34" barrels. The former owner tells me the gun does not like Federal shells in the lower barrel and will often fail to fire them. The problem reportedly is not present in the upper barrel which shoots Federals just fine. Another member at the gun club I belong to reports the same exact issue with his 725. So far, I've fired about 200 rounds of Estate and Winchester AA's with absolutely zero problems. Just curious if this is a common issue with this gun and if anyone else is experiencing similar FTF's with Federal shells in the lower barrel, and why that may be?




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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:25 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:57 am
Posts: 129
I shoot a 725 sporting, and had fed it with Federal, AA, Remington GC, Fiocchi and other shells. It has never failed to fire.

It has - on more occasions than I'd like, failed to properly destroy the bird. Pretty sure it isn't my gun at fault - lol.


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:26 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:42 pm
Posts: 715
This is a common Browning problem because of the lower firing pin. Look at the primer seat in most shells. They are not set as deep as the Federals and sometimes with Rio's.

There is an after-market set of pins that can solve this problem if needed. It really is just the bottom pin that has the problem.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php

The first two threads describe it all very well!

I have several Browning o/u guns that I have to pay attention to this issue. If you read the threads above on changing these pins, it will give you a good idea what's going on. The pins are fairly easy to change and the Browning pins will work for quite a while before needing to be changed again.

https://www.jnpgunsprings.com/BROWNING-PARTS-c20975296

Hope this helps!

pk


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:49 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Posts: 19
wmhjr wrote:
I shoot a 725 sporting, and had fed it with Federal, AA, Remington GC, Fiocchi and other shells. It has never failed to fire.

It has - on more occasions than I'd like, failed to properly destroy the bird. Pretty sure it isn't my gun at fault - lol.


I haven't tried any Federals yet but probably will next week. I'm told the cure is new firing pins. Before this gun I have been shooting a BT99 Plus which will shoot anything you put in it.

Thanks for the reply and hope you start hitting more birds. Are you sure they're not launching those Kevlar birds?


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:56 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Posts: 19
PKW-Indiana wrote:
This is a common Browning problem because of the lower firing pin. Look at the primer seat in most shells. They are not set as deep as the Federals and sometimes with Rio's.

There is an after-market set of pins that can solve this problem if needed. It really is just the bottom pin that has the problem.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php

The first two threads describe it all very well!

I have several Browning o/u guns that I have to pay attention to this issue. If you read the threads above on changing these pins, it will give you a good idea what's going on. The pins are fairly easy to change and the Browning pins will work for quite a while before needing to be changed again.

https://www.jnpgunsprings.com/BROWNING-PARTS-c20975296

Hope this helps!

pk



Thanks PKW for the info and the link for J&P. Just looked at some Federals and the primers do appear to be more inset than my Double AA's and Estates. I'm going to invest in new firing pins since I do like to shoot Federals and the local WM always carries them.


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:18 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:11 pm
Posts: 94
Ah the old "Browning Over and Under Lower Barrel Click"


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:53 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5858
Leading to the question; which came first.....the firing pin ‘issue’, or the cheap a$$ quality control lacking ammo?:-)

I chuckle at the ‘my gun works great with any ammonia A-Y, but won’t work with ‘Z’......what’s wrong with my gun’:-)


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:45 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
My Brownings do just fine with Federal Top Guns. I did have FTFs with one bad lot of Remington Gun Clubs, but that was due to a batch of bad primers which Remington rectified with a new flat. BTW, Estate Super Sport Competition shells (beige box) are made by Federal. What I avoid is using hard (Cheddite) primers in my Brownings and factory ammo by Rio or Euro makers. Hard, brittle Euro primers tend to get pierced and damage (erode/chip) the firing pins which will shorten them and then FTFs become more likely. J&P pins are nice, but even they will get damaged by hard, pierced primers. Take a look at your firing pins, I bet they are damaged.


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:40 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 182
Location: NJ
I can tell you just keep looking at your shot shells primers, Make sure you have no burn through s on the primers, if you do it will not take long for the FTF to happen, The problem is that the fire-pin rips a hole in the primers and you get burn back on the pin, pits it and deteriorates the tip and then the FTF start to happen. only on lower barrel. Brown will tell you not to shoot any shells with Cheddite primers, if your getting any signs of burn through. I would only buy Pins from Browning as they are very inexpensive($6.50) and not bad to put in. Trust me you dont want to use any aftermarket springs or pins! I have been trying to fix this on a 725 I bought new last August. Do a search on the net very common, but some never have burn through s and never have problems.
Shoot and enjoy and keep looking at your primers when your done shooting, No burn through no problems. Mine currently pitting the lower pin every 1500 rounds, but might be closer to having it repaired now.

_________________
Browning 725 HR Adjustable 32"12ga
Benelli S Sport 32"12ga
Remington 1187SP 32"12ga
Caesar Guerini Summit Trap Combo 32/34"
Winchester Model 59 Winlite 30"full 12ga
Ithaca Gun 36"12g
Pride of Spain10g
NRA LifeMember since2000


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:15 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Posts: 19
twohigh wrote:
My Brownings do just fine with Federal Top Guns. I did have FTFs with one bad lot of Remington Gun Clubs, but that was due to a batch of bad primers which Remington rectified with a new flat. BTW, Estate Super Sport Competition shells (beige box) are made by Federal. What I avoid is using hard (Cheddite) primers in my Brownings and factory ammo by Rio or Euro makers. Hard, brittle Euro primers tend to get pierced and damage (erode/chip) the firing pins which will shorten them and then FTFs become more likely. J&P pins are nice, but even they will get damaged by hard, pierced primers. Take a look at your firing pins, I bet they are damaged.


Thanks for your input. I will take a good look at the pins first chance I get and let you know.


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:24 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Posts: 19
rbdjr wrote:
I can tell you just keep looking at your shot shells primers, Make sure you have no burn through s on the primers, if you do it will not take long for the FTF to happen, The problem is that the fire-pin rips a hole in the primers and you get burn back on the pin, pits it and deteriorates the tip and then the FTF start to happen. only on lower barrel. Brown will tell you not to shoot any shells with Cheddite primers, if your getting any signs of burn through. I would only buy Pins from Browning as they are very inexpensive($6.50) and not bad to put in. Trust me you dont want to use any aftermarket springs or pins! I have been trying to fix this on a 725 I bought new last August. Do a search on the net very common, but some never have burn through s and never have problems.
Shoot and enjoy and keep looking at your primers when your done shooting, No burn through no problems. Mine currently pitting the lower pin every 1500 rounds, but might be closer to having it repaired now.


Going out this weekend and will save my hulls and will closely examine the primer strikes. I looked at them last time I shot and didn't notice any primer burn through. Thanks for your reply.


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:20 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1033
I’ve never had this “ light primer strike “ issue on any of my Brownings and Have used countless manufacturers shells. So are the shells really the problem ?


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:52 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 182
Location: NJ
The problem is that the fire-pin rips a hole in the primers and you get burn back on the pin, pits it and deteriorates the tip and then the FTF start to happen. As stated in earlier post, do a internet search on Browning lower fire pin? see what comes up. Weird part is does not happen on all just some? Im sure its a tolerance and machining problem coupled with hard primers.

_________________
Browning 725 HR Adjustable 32"12ga
Benelli S Sport 32"12ga
Remington 1187SP 32"12ga
Caesar Guerini Summit Trap Combo 32/34"
Winchester Model 59 Winlite 30"full 12ga
Ithaca Gun 36"12g
Pride of Spain10g
NRA LifeMember since2000


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:32 am 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm
Posts: 393
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
J&P pin kits are worth every penny, IMHO.

_________________
Citori 725 Skeet 12/28"
CZ Drake .410/28"


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:38 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:57 am
Posts: 129
28ga. wrote:
J&P pin kits are worth every penny, IMHO.


Curious as to just how difficult these are to install for someone who is very mechanically experienced but not a gunsmith?


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm
Posts: 393
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
wm, replacing firing pins in a 725 is really pretty straightforward, whether stock pins or J&P, and there is at least one good video on U-Tube going through the process. Some 725's need a 9" 5mm hex wrench to remove the stock bolt, others, like mine, have a regular slotted head bolt. And a small punch (don't remember the size, but I bought a Wilde 6 pc. gunsmith punch set that has the right one) is needed to get the firing pin retaining pins out. Other than that, just need a good CLP or your favorite cleaner, Q-tips, clean rags, and a bench with a towel on it to catch small parts...

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Citori 725 Skeet 12/28"
CZ Drake .410/28"


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:32 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 182
Location: NJ
Federal Top Guns run fine in my 725, but Federal Light Dove Load white box does not.
I have tried J&P spring kit and pins, I have found Browning's last longer.
Hard primer material , some say Cheddite Primers? If I continue to use the shells with hard primers I get burn through s and need to replace lower fire pin every 1500 rounds.
One thing I would not buy aftermarket pins and springs, wont cure the problem and might make it worse. Buy the browning pins and springs and retaining pins, they are 1/4 the price of aftermarkets and last longer from my experience, I have been tinkering with fire pin protrusion past breech face, and adjusting the depth. Im getting closer and will let you know how I make out. But at $6 every 1500 rounds not bad and can use a good cleaning. Not a bad job to do either, very basic .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRoWb5qwmpM&t=17s you tube vid

I like this printed tutorial better than youtube one, but watch you tube and then follow this. I think once you do it once its a 15 min job with a good cleaning.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 12&t=89866
this is great and good photo s too.

_________________
Browning 725 HR Adjustable 32"12ga
Benelli S Sport 32"12ga
Remington 1187SP 32"12ga
Caesar Guerini Summit Trap Combo 32/34"
Winchester Model 59 Winlite 30"full 12ga
Ithaca Gun 36"12g
Pride of Spain10g
NRA LifeMember since2000


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:44 pm 
Shotgun Expert
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Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 26770
Location: Plainfield, IL
Polaris49 wrote:
I Just purchased a beautiful Browning Citori 725 Trap Combo with 32" and 34" barrels. The former owner tells me the gun does not like Federal shells in the lower barrel and will often fail to fire them. The problem reportedly is not present in the upper barrel which shoots Federals just fine.


It isn't rational to compare Wally World promo loads to AA's. Federal makes more shotshell loads than any ammo manufacturer in the world. Have you tried any Gold Medal Grand loads? That's a more reasonable comparison-- and you won't have any problems.


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http://randywakeman.com/


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:44 am 
Limited Edition
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm
Posts: 393
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
Changing firing pins at 1,500 rounds? I would change ammo and/or buy better pins.

_________________
Citori 725 Skeet 12/28"
CZ Drake .410/28"


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING CITORI 725 AND FEDERAL SHELLS
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:35 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Posts: 19
twohigh wrote:
My Brownings do just fine with Federal Top Guns. I did have FTFs with one bad lot of Remington Gun Clubs, but that was due to a batch of bad primers which Remington rectified with a new flat. BTW, Estate Super Sport Competition shells (beige box) are made by Federal. What I avoid is using hard (Cheddite) primers in my Brownings and factory ammo by Rio or Euro makers. Hard, brittle Euro primers tend to get pierced and damage (erode/chip) the firing pins which will shorten them and then FTFs become more likely. J&P pins are nice, but even they will get damaged by hard, pierced primers. Take a look at your firing pins, I bet they are damaged.


Spent most of the day at the range and shot over 4 boxes of shells today. Looked closely at firing pins and compared top to bottom and didn't notice any pitting or irregularities of either. Test shot a box of federals (cheap wm target loads 1200 fps) and no issues whatsoever with top or lower barrels firing. Examined primer strikes and they all look normal. I'm just going to shoot and enjoy this gun and not worry about it until I have cause to. I appreciate your input.




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