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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:06 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:42 pm
Posts: 131
Thx for the reply. Still curious how the carrier lock releases the bolt from it's open position. I'll have to do some more investigating. I'll try one of my other trigger groups to see if that solves the problem.




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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:42 pm
Posts: 131
Experiment was NOT successful. I swapped the trigger group from my original owner gun which has never had this problem into the problem gun and ran a box of shells thru it this morning. Had about 5 of 25 shots where the bolt hung up due to the carrier lock jumping over the small barrier that's part of the trigger group. Before this I took some measurements of a couple dimensions that seemed likely to be causing the problem between the problem gun and my original owner gun and the dimensions were basically the same or within a couple of thousandths. Disappointing results. Have to keep digging I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:20 pm
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
is it bent? is it loose on the stay pin?

swap bolts?

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http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:42 pm
Posts: 131
I bought a couple of "new ?" pivot pins from Numrich hoping that would lead to a solution. I checked the OD of the part of the pin that the carrier lock rotates on and found that the original to the gun was 0.092" and the new was 0.093" OD. Then discovered that I could not get the new pin to start it's threads. No problem getting the original pin to start its threads when I tried that. When I rotated the original pin CCW I could feel where the threads start, but not on the new pin. This is probably the least of the issue as I trial fitted both the old and new pins in the carrier lock (removed from the gun) and there's a lot of slop between the carrier lock bore ID and the pin OD. Way more than I guess I would have expected. I'm 90% sure that this is the problem. Wish I knew what the design ID of the carrier lock pin bore is supposed to be. I've got three other 50's, guess I should see how sloppy those are, just to compare. Not keen on buying a used carrier lock not knowing the condition it might be in.


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
ya never know.
try swapping pins out of a good 50 of yours.

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Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:42 pm
Posts: 131
I finally got around to giving this some more attention. Turns out the ID of the carrier lock measures around 0.119 inches + a small amount (I didn't have a pin the exact size). The OD of the pin for the carrier lock measures pretty much 0.093 inches. This was true for not only the problem gun, but my other 3 guns, which do not have this problem. The nominal clearance per side between the bore and the pin is 0.013 inches, which seems like a lot to me (just my opinion). I bought a 1 ft length of stainless steel surgical tubing which nominally is 0.115 inches OD and 0.095 inches ID. It was relatively easy to make a bushing to fit between the carrier lock ID and the pin OD. The nominal wall of the tiny bushing is 0.010 inches, so the nominal "slop" between the lock ID and the pin OD per side has been reduced from the 0.013 inches to 0.003 inches. There's still some movement in the direction that has been causing the problem, but it seems improved. The few times I shot this gun the carrier lock has jumped the "barrier" of the trigger assembly at least once or twice per box of shells. I plan on trying out my "fix" tomorrow to see if I lucked out.


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:42 pm
Posts: 131
May be a fluke, but so far so good. Ran 2 boxes of shells thru the gun this afternoon without any problems. Maybe my "fix" really is a fix.


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:08 pm
Posts: 52
Bobski you have a private message JohnBoy


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
im parting with a m50 12ga pigeon skeet with cutts if anyones interested. short lop with a galazan pad. buzz me for info. I can send pics once I get it photographed.
whats unique about it is the pistol grip. its a seriously full pistol grip.
most skeet/trap grades have a 1/2 grip of sorts. this one the grip cap is practically pointing straight down. of all the pigeons ive owned, its the only set ive seen with such a dramatic curve.
anyone have or seen one?

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Range Owner:
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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:51 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
don't miss my guns for sale in the ad section of sgw.
and too....many are over on gunauction.com
enjoy.

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Former NSSA All American
Former Member Navy Shooting Team
NRA Shotgun Instructor
Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:34 am 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
a lot of people always mention gunbroker whenever they see a Winchester here on sgw. its kind of bias. sadly, a lot of old Winchesters are on a smaller site known as gunauction. gunbroker tends to have run of mill m50's. gunauction has odd ones from time to time. give gunauction a look if you like m50's.

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Former Member Navy Shooting Team
NRA Shotgun Instructor
Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:15 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Prior Lake, MN
Was there ever a 20 gauge model 50 made with the featherweight receiver?
Thanks,
Bob

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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:26 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:48 am
Posts: 333
Nope


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:15 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Prior Lake, MN
WISHBONE999 wrote:
Nope

Thanks, now I can stop looking.

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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:44 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
as mentioned on a different site......yes, but they were only experimental. you will see them occasionally, but they are expensive and theyve been shot to dickens to be tested.

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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:18 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:48 am
Posts: 333
The Winchester rep had one in Savannah in the late 50’s but it would not work very well and that was the end of the lightweights since it was not reliable. This was the only one I have seen in the 60 years I have been shooting them. I never cared for the 12ga. either but there were a lot of them floating around.
Luckily I only owned one of them and I won it....still had it up until a few months ago.


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:25 am 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
just a reminder, i put some of my rare 50's in the ad section.

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Former NSSA All American
Former Member Navy Shooting Team
NRA Shotgun Instructor
Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:20 pm
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
has anyone noticed how many pigeon guns are hitting the market lately? I count 5 currently. prices are soaring to around 2500+.
its mainly skeet guns in the high serial range. I saw one tattered and beat up fw pigeon trap gun. instead of tightening the stock, an owner just kept shooting it and it chipped away the face of the mc stock. so, instead of fixing it, he chiseled out a 1/4 section around the face to remove the damage and installed a metal band in its place. dufus 101. he destroyed the rarist m50 ever made.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/908333237/W ... ap-gun.htm
though its priced low, youre paying for the correct pigeon receiver group, forearm, trap chamber, and red rubber pad. the rest is hosed. it has an aftermarket rib and it has a dent in it. I talked with the seller.
wonder if that damaged wood could be salvaged by steaming? anyone have experience with what the max expansion is, that steaming can do?
in comparison with this sad gun, some day someone will recognize my beautiful guns for what they are.
its sad how Winchester collectors shun the m50. its a well built gun that never got its due respect. hope more will realize it. maybe this could be the start as more nice ones go up for sale.... (as we old guys weed out.) the gun needs a new generation of followers.

_________________
Retired Military Aviation
Former NSSA All American
Former Member Navy Shooting Team
NRA Shotgun Instructor
Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:41 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Vancouver Island
bobski wrote:
wonder if that damaged wood could be salvaged by steaming? anyone have experience with what the max expansion is, that steaming can do?


I doubt steaming would return the wood to near original dimension. The pictures are not that clear, in that area, but appears as though the wood was relieved to accommodate the metal band. There might be enough wood left to possibly fit that stock to 20 ga. depending on how badly stock end is damaged. The hole inside may need to be reduced in dia.

I agree the Model 50 is one of the most under valued and under appreciated pre-64 Winchester shotguns. They are a beautiful shotgun that's an excellent example of old school hands on machining. I suspect Winchester stopped, early on, promoting the Model 50 to make a big deal on the coming of the 1400.

Rod


Last edited by wraco on Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: time to give the Model 50 long deserved credit. post em
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Posts: 4433
Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
yeah its toast. it was relieved too deep.
are there stock makers around that could jig that thing in and copy the lines and inlet it?



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Retired Military Aviation
Former NSSA All American
Former Member Navy Shooting Team
NRA Shotgun Instructor
Range Owner:
http://www.vanzantclaypigeonfarm.webs.com/


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