ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:44 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 133 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:08 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:16 am
Posts: 499
Location: Poulsbo, Washington
Nice, Dave. -b




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:23 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9125
Location: Louisiana
Pine Creek/Dave, educate me please. What's the deal with pre-'13 Smiths? How are they superior to later ones?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:28 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 911
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
lossking,

It's a matter of Quality, the pre 13 guns were all hand fit and finished by the master gun makers at Hunter Arms. The later guns had many parts machine made and assembled. Please do not get me wrong the later L.C. Smith guns were good guns also, however they do not meet the quality of the pre 1913 German craftsman working at Hunter Arms, who individually made the L.C. Smith pre 1913 guns. The engineering Specifications were the same, the difference is the talent of the Master gun makers in the final fit and finish of the guns. The early guns also had Krupp and Sr Joseph barrels on the higher grade guns. Marlin tried very hard to make L.C. Smith guns on a production line, unfortunately there are too many individual parts that need hand work to make the gun cost effective, and Marlin discontinued making the L.C. Smith Shotguns. Today if Tony at CSMC produced the L.C. Smith gun, it would probably cost above $5,000 just for a double O or Field Grade gun. This does not mean that a true 28 gauge L.C. Smith gun made by him would not sell, I would place my order right now, and many others would also.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Would love to have a new 16 gauge L.C. Smith #5 gun, if Tony would only acquire the rights to make them. Course Kraus and Spangler are not alive too engrave them. Roy might be able to accomplish the Engraving however, some of his stuff looks darn nice. Attention to detail and engraving talent are an absolute must on these L.C. Smith #5 guns. Making the Brown Rotary Bolt would also be an engineering feat today, labor intensive for sure.
Image

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:52 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9125
Location: Louisiana
Thanks for the info, Dave. I've always admired L.C. Smiths, and that is a beautiful example in your post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:18 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 911
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
lossking,

If you are thinking about purchasing a pre 1913 L.C. Smith, GI has some 20 gauge and 16 gauge guns listed. Remember also all pre 13 guns were built with the same engineering and quality, the only difference in these guns is the engraving, wood and internal Jeweled side lock. All of which can be special ordered on any gun. Some of the old timers would special order a 00 gun with what ever engraving they liked, the wood they most liked, and jeweled internal side locks, instead of ordering a #4 or #5 gun. This saved a good amount of money and the purchaser ended up with a very high grade L.C. Smith double gun. If you know what you are looking at, you might be able to acquire such a nice gun. I own such a pre 13 00 gun with #1 Gun Engraving, jeweled internal side lock, French Walnut Wood, and 2 sets of barrels, along with pre-production BT fore-end. The 00 gun was special ordered by one of our family members in the early 1900's.

Look around you will be surprised what you might acquire.


Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Special ordered 16 gauge 00 with #1 Gun Engraving, one of my favorite Grouse guns.
Image

Image

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:48 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3176
Location: WY
My first trip to SD was a pile of years ago, but I hunted with a 1956 Ithaca 37 in 16ga. 28"bbl with a mod. choke. I can't remember exactly what the load was, but it was an old tattered box of Fiocchi HV's(I think replaced by the Golden Pheasants?).

_________________
“Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." -Aristotle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:14 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:16 am
Posts: 499
Location: Poulsbo, Washington
I hear those Golden Pheasant's are pretty dynamite loads, regardless of gauge.
....kinda tempted to get a box myself! =)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:54 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3176
Location: WY
I've shot allot of Golden Pheasant shells the past 15-20yrs(can't remember exactly when they came out).

Shot my last box last year. Making the switch to non-tox this year. Kinda sad really, after hunting with something for so long.

_________________
“Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." -Aristotle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:17 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:16 am
Posts: 499
Location: Poulsbo, Washington
How did those Golden Pheasants work for you Dan?
Would you prefer them over something like Super-X's or Hi-Brass Game Loads?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:54 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:39 pm
Posts: 4998
870-LEFTY wrote:
Anyone use the 16ga. on wild pheasants in places like S.D., N.D., Kansas? If so, what loads & chokes do you use, especially in an O/U or SxS? Is it enough gun or is a 12ga. better?


I've hunted pheasants in Kansas with a 16 gauge Marlin Model 90.

I moved up to a 12 gauge Remington Wingmaster to get the extra shots, not the bigger gauge. Never found anything that the 870 would kill that the 16 gauge wouldn't.

_________________
The root(s) of all evil:
-Political Correctness
-Insurance
-Securitization
Take your pick.

Always make an even number of mistakes. One may cancel out another.

"People who enjoy meetings should not be in charge of anything." --Thomas Sowell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:05 am 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:16 am
Posts: 499
Location: Poulsbo, Washington
Model 90 is new to me, so I had to look it up.
Beautiful gun....

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:21 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:03 pm
Posts: 189
Never saw a Marlin 90 with that nice of wood. Usually very plain wood. The whole gun is usually very unattractive with just a blued receiver and no engraving.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:26 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5349
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
This thread looks like it will go on forever. Maybe I will actually take the time to read it all one day. I never shot at one with anything other than a SXS DT shotgun. Not that they are better but they are what works for me. I have always wanted a stack barrel but they are hard to find with two triggers. They had a Beretta in a gunshop with DTs years ago (12 ga.). I rushed home to get the money but when I got back, it was gone!! Two old sayings come to mind. "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" and "Don't change horses in mid stream!"
I have killed pheasant with everything from a .410 to a 12 ga., except a 28 or 16 & never shot at one with a 3" shell (except .410) or a 10 ga. . The 20 ga. 2 3/4 " bored IC & MOD. worked great on close flushing birds & at normal range. 1 1/4 oz. of #5s in a 12 ga bored F&M has killed pheasant for me much further than I should have shot at them. I have known people to use the standard 10 ga. 1 5/8 oz. load in the 10 & heavy loads of #2's in the 12 for wild flushing, late season pheasant. Since 20's & even 28's have & do work well on pheasants within their effective range, it's a no brainer that a 16 ga. can be an effective pheasant gun. Like the "Good Old Boy" says, your experience may differ, but if 28's & 20's are effective, it stands to reason that a 16 ga. is effective! I have never found anything heavier than 1 1/4 oz. was needed for the longer shots. I generally hunted with 1 1/8 oz. of 6's in the right barrel & 1 1/4 oz. of 5's in the left barrel when shooting a 12 ga. . Guess what, the 16 can be loaded w/ 1 1/4 oz. of shot should you think you need it! I must confess, I have not hunted late season pheasants in N. Dakota when everything was frozen solid. That is when the farmer broke out his 10 ga.!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:37 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:16 am
Posts: 499
Location: Poulsbo, Washington
My problem with DT's is that I have the tendency to pull them both at the same time.
Makes the pattern dense as hell, that's for sure!
My brother's slim little Stevens 16 ga. was a good shooter. Only shotgun he's needed for over 50 years now.
Ounce and a quarter isn't that much of a stretch for 16 ga.
Regular heavy shot charge is ounce and an eighth for that gauge.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:00 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5349
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
" I have a tendency to pull both triggers at the same time"
I guess different folks have different problems. I never had that problem because that is all, for all practical purposes, I have ever shot in a shotgun. The problem is people that have never shot a DT gun learning/ adapting to them. The SST is an attempt to make a double gun more like a jamomatic. It is not an improvement! Get yourself a SXS DT 10 ga. 3.5" mag. & some 2.5 oz. mag. loads. Most people catch on pretty fast with that setup!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:25 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2500
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
DeanMk wrote:
My problem with DT's is that I have the tendency to pull them both at the same time....


I find that hard to imagine, as being a common occurrence in other than a Three Stooges clip.

A failure with the trigger system perhaps but pulling both at once would seem...difficult.
Learn something new every day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:00 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 9:19 am
Posts: 1958
Location: Columbia, SC
Multiflora wrote:
DeanMk wrote:
My problem with DT's is that I have the tendency to pull them both at the same time....


I find that hard to imagine, as being a common occurrence in other than a Three Stooges clip.

A failure with the trigger system perhaps but pulling both at once would seem...difficult.
Learn something new every day.


I've heard of (but never personally seen) shooters putting their trigger finger on the front trigger and their "birdie" finger on the back trigger - doing this it would be easy to pull both at the same time. Improper use of fingers.

If double triggers are used correctly with only the trigger finger and moving it to the second trigger after firing the first barrel it is virtually impossible to pull both at the same time. My wife and I shoot about 5,000 cartridges each year in our SxS's with double triggers and have never pulled both at the same time. We also attend a fair number of SxS events and the doubling that we hear is from a mechanical problem, not improper use of fingers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:19 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2500
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
FlyChamps wrote:
I've heard of (but never personally seen) shooters putting their trigger finger on the front trigger and their "birdie" finger on the back trigger - doing this it would be easy to pull both at the same time. Improper use of fingers.

If double triggers are used correctly with only the trigger finger and moving it to the second trigger after firing the first barrel it is virtually impossible to pull both at the same time. My wife and I shoot about 5,000 cartridges each year in our SxS's with double triggers and have never pulled both at the same time. We also attend a fair number of SxS events and the doubling that we hear is from a mechanical problem, not improper use of fingers.


Yes.....a healthy dose of reality is a needed plus on Internet message boards.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:36 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5349
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I once had a Spanish SXS 10 ga. that produced fantastic patterns with almost everything. The guy that said, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" was on to something. The gun appeared to be made of quality outsourced parts but the three stooges must have assembled them. It had a nasty habit of doubling! I sent it to a number of gunsmiths & nobody could fix it. Finally, in desperation, I gave up & got rid of it! I still wonder today if I should have kept trying or maybe had those barrels fitted to a different receiver? When it doubled, it got your attention!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 16 GA. ON WILD PHEASANTS
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:16 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:10 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Atlanta Michigan
I've tried pulling both triggers at the same time on several SXS over the last 45-50 years and I just can't get any gun to do it.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 133 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: albanygun, Bad English, Bing [Bot], birdhunter39, bwpkck, casonet, cheesy1, cookoff013, Dbl Auto, DblXX, Denver1911, EricB, fishrising, Fluke, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], hopper810, JacksBack, Jaspo01, jcbabb, kenhwind, leftex, Luvthemtorts, Markepilot, md2020, Mr.Jeem, msmith, myshootinstinks, NoDak Scotty, olsenjb, oyeme, Patently Obvious, Rack-N-Roy, RMc, saskbooknut, shacked, sherpa guide, Silver, Skip1sr1101, Solid Hit, strut64, SWPAMike, Tailchaser, Tex68W, The Rattler, Tidefanatic, TOM-M, twin rivers, twistedoak, wbreda, Woodsie131, YevetS


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice