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Brad - Electronic scoring coming to the UK?

6K views 95 replies 18 participants last post by  ysr_racer 
#1 ·
This months Clay Shooting magazine (UK) reports the CPSA are working on an updated scoring programme (called 'Shoot') with added fixture scheduling, classification management and live scoring capability.
It will be available for desktop, laptop, tablet & mobile and run on a grounds wi-fi and sync to leaderboards and submit scores instantly to the CPSA.
The item goes on to report
'Eventually, at CPSA major championships, and at grounds that invest in the kit, referees will be able to enter scores as they happen - and each hit or miss will appear live on the leaderboards provided the necessary connectivity is available. Further developments will see a mobile app created that can use mobile data to upload scores.'

Regards

Leigh
 
#27 ·
Uhhhhhh, if you old geezers would open your eyes......electronics aren't coming they are already here, extremely reliable, waterproof and simple to use. And no one will have to have a scorecard and than a masterscore sheet....and if you have ever had to total up scorecards and read the hieroglyphics, it is no wonder mistakes are made. Ever see scorecards when it is raining and windy? I'll take the electronic version in a heartbeat.

It's 2020 wake up and join the rest of the world.

Technically I am an old geezer too at 64 years. Electronic scoring can't happen soon enough.
 
#28 ·
And the internet never goes down, tablets never go down, files and programs never become corrupted? And nobody makes mistakes entering data on a computer. Please justify the cost to the club. Tell me you want to pay for the equipment, installation and trappers as part of the entry fee. This isn't free stuff. And the margins in targets won't pay for it. Show me how it would save time and money for the clubs.
 
#29 ·
Go ahead call me a geezer, its true. Was heavily involved in implementing electronic tracking systems in one of the most conservative businesses.

Electronic scoring is technically possible there are obstacles to overcome. Wide spread multiple data entry points, large tournaments may have dozens. High volume in tournaments. Comparatively low volume most of the time.

Mobile scoring business would work, portable data entry & WiFi equipment run by outside staff. Business model already used in sporting clays. Traps brought in for tournaments, set and maintained by outside contractors . Tournament Golf carts operate same way mobile contractors.

All it needs is capital, will it pay ?

Bass
 
#30 ·
lt0026 said:
And the internet never goes down, tablets never go down, files and programs never become corrupted? And nobody makes mistakes entering data on a computer. Please justify the cost to the club. Tell me you want to pay for the equipment, installation and trappers as part of the entry fee. This isn't free stuff. And the margins in targets won't pay for it. Show me how it would save time and money for the clubs.
And pistol matches have been using it for years, and pistol matches have been using it for years, and pistol matches have been using it for years, and pistol matches have been using it for years...
 
#32 ·
dogchaser37 said:
Uhhhhhh, if you old geezers would open your eyes......electronics aren't coming they are already here, extremely reliable, waterproof and simple to use. And no one will have to have a scorecard and than a masterscore sheet....and if you have ever had to total up scorecards and read the hieroglyphics, it is no wonder mistakes are made. Ever see scorecards when it is raining and windy? I'll take the electronic version in a heartbeat.

It's 2020 wake up and join the rest of the world.

Technically I am an old geezer too at 64 years. Electronic scoring can't happen soon enough.
So HOW MUCH? What is the payback time frame? I keep asking and never get an answer.
 
#33 ·
it0026,

Other than weather related problems, which you wouldn't be shooting in anyway, when was the last time the internet went down in your area?

In the last 30 years I have never had a computer, tablet or cell phone fail. Up until last July, I used each for my job from 2007 to 2019. I am posting this from a Dell Chromebook. Tablets and cell phones are used by foreman in construction on the job sites. A far tougher environment physically on electronic equipment than Sporting Clays would be.

These types of applications are not subject to corrupted files or viruses. While not impossible it would be highly unlikely.

Seems like your experience with electronics is limited.
 
#34 ·
My knowledge is not limited. I was the lead person in a LEA that went to tablets in police cars. Computer Aided Dispatch and reporting. We had crashes, battery problems, dead zones, program issues and damage to tablets for various reasons. We did three backups a day for a reason. Any smart business does the same. We used Verizon cell service. If you never got a blue screen or computer freeze I want to meet you. You are very special. Until you get past the cost factor none of what you mention matters. So tell me how does a club finance this big capital project with the small margins on targets? How much will fees increase? How does the club benefit? And find me a shoot where everyone is comfortable using and carrying a tablet, especially SYO? By the way it's lt.
 
#35 ·
oneounceload,

Not sure on the payback but I can't see a place like M & M having a problem paying for it.

I would imagine that the largest part of the cost is the installation of the access points for the wifi.
 
#37 ·
it0026,

You wouldn't have dead zones, you wouldn't use cell towers for this application. You would have to have someone that was diligent on keeping equipment charged and maintained.

You are right I did have a blue screen back in the 1990's. I was at work and the hard drive died on my desktop. Forgot all about that.

Not sure that this is big capital.
 
#38 ·
dogchaser37 said:
oneounceload,

Not sure on the payback but I can't see a place like M & M having a problem paying for it.

I would imagine that the largest part of the cost is the installation of the access points for the wifi.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against it; I just do not see too many clubs spending the capital for the equipment, software, WIFI, etc. for something that might get used 1x per month. I could see it as a nice feature at the big blasts and at such events as State, Regional, Open and Nationals.
 
#39 ·
What's the ROI for just keeping score? Who finances this improvement in the long run? Answer is you. Any savvy well run business backs up it's systems constantly, why is that? I am not against it, but it doesn't make sense financially. Are shooters willing to pay extra $$$ for the convenience? They don't want to pay for trappers and scorekeepers now. A for profit club has a cost basis for throwing a target. How much extra will this cost? Roughly .20 cents to throw a registered target now taking into consideration all club costs. Thats probably on the low side. And for the shooter add the National,state and scoring fees which the club collects. For profit clubs aren't in business to break even or lose money.
 
#40 ·
When I ran NSCA shoots I paid the local ROTC $500 to trap and score the 14-16 stations and provided lunch. They also got service hours

All for one shoot a month

Installing WiFi and buying tablets would have cost how much? I'd rather put the effort in to the community
 
#41 ·
You would still be using those people and they would use the tablets. That would be an added expense for everyone. Most clubs don't have capital reserves to finance the new scoring equipment. They would need to finance it, figure in the bank interest also. This on top of trap replacement/maint, new trap batteries, stand upkeep etc. Some people need to get a clue. Some people need to go to the Promatic site and see the cost of a new motor, gearbox or throwing arm. And then hope you can fix/install it yourself.
 
#43 ·
Bass3 said:
Pistol match different animal. Few scoring points limited geography. Probably cost 5 % compared to sporting.

Bass
What a bass, you're wrong on almost every account. But I sure enjoy seeing, you geezers all riled up over technology :)

Now get off my lawn you young whipper snappers.
 
#45 ·
There are some obvious differences to how the CPSA run registered shoots and how you do over in the USA.

First of all, there are no score your own registered shoots they have to be run with referee/trapper.

The CPSA already provides the shoot program for free to all registered grounds, when you first sign on they will enter your CPSA number in the program and it will give them your current classification and details.

This is all done either by real time if the ground has internet or updates whenever the laptop logs onto the CPSA server.

At the moment score cards are entered into the shoot program manually as they come in and this is displayed real time on a monitor in the club house and the scores sent to the CPSA as soon as it connects to the internet or via email attachment.

All they are now adding is the ability to put this program on laptop, desktop or tablet for a variety of operating systems so as soon as the tablets etc. connect to the main computers LAN (local area network) or the internet they will sync with the future ability to use mobile data.

So for the CPSA it's just a bit of coding to a program they already supply to all registered grounds so they are not going to be bothered if it doesn't take off.

For the championships as long as they bring the tablet into the club house at some point it will sync so no need for extended wifi or internet just wifi network in the club house,this will make life a lot easier on big shoots and stop any altering of score cards.

I shoot registered grounds where I can definitely see this being used and I shoot grounds where there is no chance at the moment. But all the grounds use a laptop and the shoot program so they might be tempted.
 
#46 ·
I think the thing I find most amusing about you geezers crying about technology, is that you're using a tablet, desktop, or phone to do it.

To quote Captain Kirk, irony can be pretty ironic sometimes :)
 
#47 ·
You know, you can't do anything when you don't think you can.

When there is a will there is a way.

I don't believe that electronic scoring is for every club all the time, as things stand today. But I don't really believe it is above the means of a lot of clubs and if nothing else it would make things a lot easier, faster and more accurate for the folks keeping, recording and reporting scores.

You naysayers should have to try and read scorecards to post the scores for 2 events, you would be screaming for the electronics.
 
#48 ·
Most of those sloppy cards are from SYO shoots. Too many people handling cards and making mistakes. And people do make mistakes entering data on a computer. And who trains all these shooters at SYO? Where does the tech help come from out in the field? Most clubs are stretched just keeping traps running. Expensive solution looking for a problem. Shooters can keep your own score electronically. Sell me on this. Give me some real numbers and how a club, not just anxious shooters will benefit from it? When will the club see it's ROI?
 
#49 ·
When will the club see it's ROI?
Well I have asked and all Brad seems to do is replay with snarky BS that has nothing to do with the questions I asked. So, I would take that as "never" for a small club throwing 1 shoot per month maybe 8-10 times a year.

You naysayers should have to try and read scorecards to post the scores for 2 events, you would be screaming for the electronics.
So why hasn't Winscore, ScoringPro or Score Chaser adopted these for when they go to the big events? Sure would make Lois and others time a lot easier from all of your statements?
 
#51 ·
ysr_racer said:
I think the thing I find most amusing about you geezers crying about technology, is that you're using a tablet, desktop, or phone to do it.

To quote Captain Kirk, irony can be pretty ironic sometimes :)
If we still used rotary dial phones......your fingers would be strong enough to hang onto the lunch check.:)
 
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