ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:12 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:35 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:52 am
Posts: 5
Has there been a fix or cure for lower pin on the 725 when using so called HARD PRIMERS shells and have experience primer burn through and then pin deterioration to need to replace pin, 3000 rounds 3 fire pins in 8 month old gun, would adjusting the length of pin past the breech solve the problem?
Is there any permanent fix?? of just be-careful of shells and brands shot out of lower barrel?




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:27 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 181
Location: NJ
I have been dealing with same problem, Fixes? 1. Shoot Remington, Federal , and other brand shells without the Hard primers. These include and I sure are more, Fiocchi, Estate, Winchester Universal, and Im sure there are more, these are what I had troubles with. BROWNING told me Cheddite Primers specifically. Fire pin length past the breach with hammer resting on back of pin, 40 to 70 thousands. yes I have played with the hit end of the fire pin clamping in a drill and using emery cloth down to 0000 steel wool and for me 59 thousands seems to work well, that being said I only shoot Remington or Federal shells. The good springs and fire pins cheap from Browning, for a upper and lower its less than $13 dollars, springs are reasonable also from Browning. I Did try a set of J&P pins and springs a lot more$ and lasted no longer than BROWNING pins. I called J&P they told me dont shoot hard primers and the cant control that. My 725 is just over a year old, 3 pins first 3000 rounds, now since adjustment and Remington's and Federals I have another 3000 rounds through it and all has been fine.You can always just shoot top barrel and shoot what ever shells you want, thats what I did till I burned through the shells I bought on sale. there are several links on this forum on pin length and spec, you can do a search and find even more info. Good Luck I do believe BROWNING should put a note in the owners manual as this has been around for 15 years and affect some Browning O/U. I f they cant address this and cure it at least warn the customers that buy there gun and then find this out. Browning did offer to have me send the gun back and told me straight up they will ck it out but cant guarantee the problem with hard primers can be ever repaired even after they go through it and return it to me. they were very helpful over the phone with things to check and specs, also they did warranty the pins, but I have purchased a few extras to keep in my bag as its very easy to change out after you do it once.. rbdjr

_________________
Browning 725 HR Adjustable 32"12ga
Benelli S Sport 32"12ga
Remington 1187SP 32"12ga
Caesar Guerini Summit Trap Combo 32/34"
Winchester Model 59 Winlite 30"full 12ga
Ithaca Gun 36"12g
Pride of Spain10g
NRA LifeMember since2000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:52 am 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm
Posts: 393
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
The lower pin is more likely to pierce primers and erode due to the strike angle, but both can be affected. Stay away from known hard primers, use J&P pins, and get a good magnifying glass to check pin faces from time to time.

_________________
Citori 725 Skeet 12/28"
CZ Drake .410/28"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:04 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11436
Location: Kansas
Why is it that other brands of guns don’t seem to have this problem?

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:14 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 181
Location: NJ
28ga. wrote:
The lower pin is more likely to pierce primers and erode due to the strike angle, but both can be affected. Stay away from known hard primers, use J&P pins, and get a good magnifying glass to check pin faces from time to time.



The lower pin hit the primer at a down and to the left angle when it fires, just the design of the gun.
I personally have had no troubles with the upper barrel as it hits the primer at almost a straight on.
As I stated previous post, J&P pins made no difference other than the price they lasted no longer than the Browning $7 pin. As I spoke with J&P on the phone they told me avoid hard primers.
Picture a PLASMA cutter hitting the tip of your fire pin when that primer pierces the primer, NO FIRE PIN CAN LAST under those conditions.

A company named " Giuliani " has a Browning Fire Pin Kit out also similar to "JP" the Giulani kit comes with upper and lower pins, return spring, 2 hammer springs, and a lock up spring and a tool to make the spring installation a bit easier, I have not tried that kit yet?, for me it will be BROWNING $7 pins and avoid shells with HARD primers. Good Luck rbdjr

_________________
Browning 725 HR Adjustable 32"12ga
Benelli S Sport 32"12ga
Remington 1187SP 32"12ga
Caesar Guerini Summit Trap Combo 32/34"
Winchester Model 59 Winlite 30"full 12ga
Ithaca Gun 36"12g
Pride of Spain10g
NRA LifeMember since2000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:29 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Posts: 2433
T-Brooks wrote:
Has there been a fix or cure for lower pin on the 725 when using so called HARD PRIMERS shells and have experience primer burn through and then pin deterioration to need to replace pin, 3000 rounds 3 fire pins in 8 month old gun, would adjusting the length of pin past the breech solve the problem?
Is there any permanent fix?? of just be-careful of shells and brands shot out of lower barrel?

What happens at 3000 rounds?

_________________
Never sell a gun you shoot well, no matter how ugly or unpopular.
Copyright 2020 by SEB7515. All Rights Reserved.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:30 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 674
seb7515 wrote:
T-Brooks wrote:
Has there been a fix or cure for lower pin on the 725 when using so called HARD PRIMERS shells and have experience primer burn through and then pin deterioration to need to replace pin, 3000 rounds 3 fire pins in 8 month old gun, would adjusting the length of pin past the breech solve the problem?
Is there any permanent fix?? of just be-careful of shells and brands shot out of lower barrel?

What happens at 3000 rounds?

The tips become eroded, or cratered. I've had it happen on two different Brownings. Always the bottom barrel.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:38 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:22 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Central Texas
Win 209 primers never pierce is my experience. Estate yellow and red box ammo and Remington ammo works too. I have 40,000 rounds through my 725. Replaced firing pins at 15-20,000 just because friends were having the issues but the pins I removed looked fine. Used the Browning pins and springs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:08 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1093
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
Avoid RIO ammo as well. The Estates in the beige box that are made in the US are ok. The ones in the white box made in France are a no go. It's easy enough to find ammo with soft primers at competitive prices to the Euro stuff. A couple years ago I tried to get Rio to use softer primers but they made out like they never heard there was a problem with their primers and Browning O/Us. For years I reloaded using Win or CCI primers and never had a problem. When I started shooting factory ammo I shot Rio and quickly noticed pierced primers and chipped firing pins which thankfully are easy to replace.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:42 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 687
Man, Browning has to get this fixed. You can’t keep aggravating people like this and keep your B-gun reputation intact. Sooner or later people in the know are going to just stop paying the Browning price for the privilege of being annoyed. I know I will think hard before buying another Browning. Especially nowadays with such tight ammo supplies and high prices, the last thing people need is another limitation on what ammo they can use. I know Beretta doesn’t have this problem and I bet this doesn’t happen to CZ O/U guns either. To many good choices up and down the market to put up with the foolishness.

_________________
Frannie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:14 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 181
Location: NJ
Brown has had this problem around for approx 15 years, they know its out there, No changes as long as they keep selling. To be honest I was upset, when this was happening until I changed the pin and stopped using shells with "Hard Primers" . Now I love the way my gun shoots and as far as Im concerned not a problem any longer. But I do wish they posted what shells not to shoot in owners manual? Kinda like car that require higher octane fuel ie(turbo).
By the way the are other Brand Shotguns that have this problem same as Browning.

_________________
Browning 725 HR Adjustable 32"12ga
Benelli S Sport 32"12ga
Remington 1187SP 32"12ga
Caesar Guerini Summit Trap Combo 32/34"
Winchester Model 59 Winlite 30"full 12ga
Ithaca Gun 36"12g
Pride of Spain10g
NRA LifeMember since2000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:24 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:40 am
Posts: 242
Location: Houston, TX and Fairfield Glade, TN
I suspect that they would have been sued if they posted Specific Names of shells to not use. Lawyers would have been all over them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:17 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1093
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:02 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 687
twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.

It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. It is Browning’s responsibility to fix their problem or pay the price of their nonchalance in the marketplace. Like it or not, the hard primers are here to stay and don’t cause a problem that I know of in other guns. Would you want to be the odd man out with Beretta breathing down your neck? Why give your competition an advantage?

Guns are redesigned all the time for a lot less important reasons than this. I don’t understand other Browning owners not being offended by Browning’s milking of the cash cow at our expense. I know you are not alone, and that is even more surprising. To me it is a case of confirmation bias. Something you bought couldn’t have a fault by definition.

I’m not that way. I’m pissed that I can’t use any ammo I want to and won’t buy any more Browning products until this issue is rectified. I’m not in the ammo analysis business. I’m in the buy-the-cheapest-target-ammo-I-can-find-that-breaks-clays-business. I don’t care if a primer is hard or soft as long as it works. There are too many other good gun choices.

_________________
Frannie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:28 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:40 am
Posts: 242
Location: Houston, TX and Fairfield Glade, TN
If I need soft primers, I'll buy soft primers.

To each his own.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:20 am 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm
Posts: 393
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
I really liked Rio 12 ga. 7/8 oz. but just too iffy on piercings...one or two per box doesn't seem like a lot, but over time it can be a problem. Again, J&P pins handled the torching much better than stock pins, but why have to worry about it?
Agree that Estate beige box and Gun Clubs seem to be ok, but I still check the pin faces about once a month...have gone through a number of Estate flats without issue.

_________________
Citori 725 Skeet 12/28"
CZ Drake .410/28"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:41 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5855
twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.


Perfectly, logically said......


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:43 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5855
Auldthymer wrote:
twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.

It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. It is Browning’s responsibility to fix their problem or pay the price of their nonchalance in the marketplace. Like it or not, the hard primers are here to stay and don’t cause a problem that I know of in other guns. Would you want to be the odd man out with Beretta breathing down your neck? Why give your competition an advantage?

Guns are redesigned all the time for a lot less important reasons than this. I don’t understand other Browning owners not being offended by Browning’s milking of the cash cow at our expense. I know you are not alone, and that is even more surprising. To me it is a case of confirmation bias. Something you bought couldn’t have a fault by definition.

I’m not that way. I’m pissed that I can’t use any ammo I want to and won’t buy any more Browning products until this issue is rectified. I’m not in the ammo analysis business. I’m in the buy-the-cheapest-target-ammo-I-can-find-that-breaks-clays-business. I don’t care if a primer is hard or soft as long as it works. There are too many other good gun choices.



Where’s your venom for cheap ammo makers?........oh yeah, buy the good gun, feed it cheap ammo, got to be the guns fault.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:38 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:37 pm
Posts: 19403
I've got a couple of Citori O/U's that I've had for 15+ years. I would make a wild guess that I've got 30,000 rounds through one of them and 18 to 20,000 rounds through the other one.

I've shot every kind of ammo that comes down the pike through those two guns including Rio (which I don't care much for). Both guns still have the original firing pins in them.

_________________
Please post For Sale items in the proper Classified section.

Semi-Auto Classifieds is ONLY for Complete Semi-Auto shotguns.
Over/Under Classifieds is ONLY for Complete O/U shotguns.
Items other than a complete shotgun go in OTHER Classifieds.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:24 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 687
Rooster booster wrote:
Auldthymer wrote:
twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.

It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. It is Browning’s responsibility to fix their problem or pay the price of their nonchalance in the marketplace. Like it or not, the hard primers are here to stay and don’t cause a problem that I know of in other guns. Would you want to be the odd man out with Beretta breathing down your neck? Why give your competition an advantage?

Guns are redesigned all the time for a lot less important reasons than this. I don’t understand other Browning owners not being offended by Browning’s milking of the cash cow at our expense. I know you are not alone, and that is even more surprising. To me it is a case of confirmation bias. Something you bought couldn’t have a fault by definition.

I’m not that way. I’m pissed that I can’t use any ammo I want to and won’t buy any more Browning products until this issue is rectified. I’m not in the ammo analysis business. I’m in the buy-the-cheapest-target-ammo-I-can-find-that-breaks-clays-business. I don’t care if a primer is hard or soft as long as it works. There are too many other good gun choices.



Where’s your venom for cheap ammo makers?........oh yeah, buy the good gun, feed it cheap ammo, got to be the guns fault.

It isn’t about fault and blame. It is about keeping your customers and keeping them happy. Hard primers are a fact of life. Get over it. If Browning is the only one or one of a few brands that can’t tolerate them, pointing the finger back at the ammo makers just isn’t going to cut it. Most people will still be able to use those ammo brands and the makers aren’t going to change. In all likelihood the conversion to hard primers will keep progressing. Browning will find themselves in the unenviable position of being both right and bankrupt. What is the point of that? They should just pull their head out of the sand and do what it takes to solve the problem.



_________________
Frannie


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 1casual, 47MolineRTU, 870-LEFTY, Anatidae, BigDeeeeeeee, Bing [Bot], Bladeswitcher, BobK, browning66, casonet, Clayshooter1, ClaysOnlyShooter, dallen749, Dave-K, dickgtax, dpe2002, drawdc, Drew Hause, dsohmer, dubob, ellisjre, EricB, Fitasc2, FTRPILOT, geometric, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], HenryPeter, hes, hopper810, HusqvarnaSweden, Irish Red & White, ithacanut, Jaspo01, John H, johnlinchmann, Keperkey, Lefty Wilson, llc, longliner, lossking, luckydogg, Malcolm7, Mike Foley, Mike McAlpine, Mkk, msmith, napawino, nevermind, ohio mike, Oldandrusty, oldshotty, painter*, Rack-N-Roy, RMc, Rooster booster, saddlerocker, Station9, SWPAMike, Telmo, Tidefanatic, trebleplink, Vette Jockey2, xsshooter


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice