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 Post subject: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:30 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:43 am
Posts: 3
So,I contacted pw today to order the tooling head to convert my 800b 28ga to 12ga. Was informed by the polite lady, that you cannot convert the older presses. "They are what they are"
I informed her I had been told differen
tly. Not true was the response.
If thats the kind of product knowledge/support you get,im going back to Mec.




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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:37 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:07 pm
Posts: 977
Location: Georgia
800b small gauge can be converted to any gauge using 800c tooling. I'm running a 28 gauge machine now that started life as a 20 gauge 800b its's more or less an 800cvt 28.


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 1645
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Fishingrod wrote:
I informed her I had been told differen
tly .


By who??

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
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Tonya left PW a few years back that know the machines all the way back to the 600's in and out, and who you get on the phone now, lets just say less than stellar. Hell, did not even need to look up part numbers with Tonya if you needed a part, since she know them like the back of her hand as well. You just told here what machine, what mods, and what you needed, and parts will be in the male the same day.

So, The B sizers will need to be shortened with a C6 insert on the lathe.
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B Hull Knock out tool converted to accept the new knock out parts. And yes, one on the right, started of as one on the left.
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Then just need the knock out crimper tool (entire tool since you can't covert the B crimper to a C crimper), knock out cup, knock out spring, knock out bottom button, and knock out bottom bolt (about $100 in parts with shipping).
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On the right is the bottom button and bolt that you can't see if the above photo.
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If you want to just buy the entire C knock out tool with upper section to save on some machining time for the knock out tool (cuts the normal 10 min of time, down to about 6 mins with clean up), then throw about $10 into the mix to just buy a complete knock out tool, isntead of the needed part to use on a converted B knock out post.


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:28 pm
Posts: 5620
Location: Missoula, MT
If he just buys an 800+ tooling head / gauge change isn't all that taken care of? Its about $50 more than the 900 tooling set, but nothing else needs done.

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:43 am
Posts: 3
Thanks for the help guys.
I know nothing about these
Presses, next time I call them I'll just order the complete tool head and not discuss what I'm trying to accomplish. It

sure is nice when the person answering the phone knows the product


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
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John H wrote:
If he just buys an 800+ tooling head / gauge change isn't all that taken care of? Its about $50 more than the 900 tooling set, but nothing else needs done.



Yes, since the new tool head will have the thread in type wad ram channel that matches the new type wad rams.

The glitch, is with a little machine work, your looking at $100 using most of the old tools (like the two prong pre-crimper that I love, over the newer shite plastic cup on a stick pre-crimper that I hate with a passion) and head, verse the cost of a 800+ tool set with head at $300 instead.


Really, it just depends on how much "Baby with the bath water" you want to throw away/try to sell off in the end, since it's only a few pieces that are needed to be mod'd and bought, to turn the machine into taper crimping in the same gauge.
Plus, if you don't want to repaint, the lower machine will be the old PW crinkle black of the machines up to around the CVT, while the new upper tool head will be painted in the silver crinkle finish itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:28 pm
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Location: Missoula, MT
He was trying to do a gauge change, iirc. He wanted to go from a 28 ga. 800b to a 12 ga.

If you do the tooling head you still have both. Although the 28 ga still has all the 800b parts. A little work following dano523's instructions and you have both with taper crimping and a solid wad ram.

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:58 am 
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Yes with John, since having the 12 gauge tool set in it own head, will be a lot faster on gauge changes on the machine. Hence $50 for the head including with tool kit, just makes sense.

Just make sure to order a 800 tool with tool head. The 900 tool kit, and the 800 tool kit are the same thing regarding the tools themselves, but the tool head for a 900 will not work on a 800 isntead.
The 800 uses the star with rear cam plate assembly to index a 800 machine, while the 900,950, ls-1000 and 2000 machines uses a center rod with centering indexing isntead.


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness warren product knowledge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:28 pm
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Location: Missoula, MT
Fundamentally there are 2 ways to do a gauge change on an 800 type machine. The easy way is to buy an 800 tooling head set up. This comes with dies, wad seating guts, shell seating post, and the entire assembled upper head.

The other way, which really isn't that difficult, is to buy a 900 tooling set. Thus has everything the 800 set has except the actual top plate casting. Its just bare tools. So you have to pull the individual tools off the head and replace them. Since the wad seating stem, the final crimp station, and the knock out station has changed from the b model, there is more you have to do going this route (i.e. machining the crosshead to accept the new tooling).

Keep in mind that the actual 'b' model was replaced by the 'c' model in the mid 80's. At best, its 35 years old.

Also, one difference that you just can't change is the main drive shaft. On the 'b' and 'c' models its a 7/8" shaft and the drive arm is mounted to the end cap. Iirc, the end caps can break (which is why later models changed the design) and those parts are no longer available. I think its about the only thing that can't be upgraded easily.



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