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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:29 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
No need for porting on a 20 ga gun.

I'd add Parallel comb, and 30+ inch barrels, and I'd also stick to 12 ga for now.




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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:40 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 571
The reason porting is practically useless on shotguns is that the pressure at the muzzle is so much lower than with rifles. One of my O/Us is ported and I can't notice any difference in recoil or anything else.

Also I would vote for 12 gauge if it's your only gun. If you reload it's easy to load 7/8 or 3/4 ounces of shot in a 12 gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:42 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 571
by the way, what is that Brooklyn Bridge replica on the end of the Sheik's barrel?


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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:47 pm
Posts: 48
Skeet_Man wrote:
Porting absolutely does reduce muzzle flip, it's VERY simple physics. Anyone who argues the opposite, from a scientific basis, is completely ignoring Newtons 3rd law, and to some extent the 2nd as well. The only debatable aspect is the perception of how much (the actual "how much" could likely be calculated if someone was ambitious enough). This is where gun design, stock fit, gun mount, ect will all come into play as contributing or mitigating factors.

My tubed skeet gun has ported 12ga barrels, and it weighted and balanced as close as possible to the gun when it has the 20ga tubes in, which are not ported. On paper the 12ga loads have more calculated recoil, however there is DEFINITELY a difference in muzzle jump which makes shooting the 12ga, especially for doubles, significantly easier. Same gun, same stock fit, very nearly the same weight and balance (if anything, 12ga is a tiny bit lighter), but higher recoiling larger gauge shells have much lower muzzle jump.

You could try telling him porting doesn't work (he had the most extreme porting I've seen so far). That's Sheik Ahmed al Maktoum, 2004 Olympic Gold Medalist in Double Trap (and before someone tries to go the "top shooters do it because they get paid" BS, he is (or at least was when he won, considering the oil price crash) likely worth more $ than everyone who has ever navigated to this website combined):

Image

Or him, that's Peter Robert Russell Wilson, 2012 Olympic Gold Medalist in double trap, Ahmed's protege:

Image

Perhaps the takeaway is that if we are going to port a gun, maybe we aren't porting it ENOUGH. I have Proport Pigeon Porting, and doubt I would go with less if I had to do it over again.

Did you try using ported chokes with your ported barrels?


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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:26 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 8996
Location: Rochester, NY
IndyCA35 wrote:
The reason porting is practically useless on shotguns is that the pressure at the muzzle is so much lower than with rifles. One of my O/Us is ported and I can't notice any difference in recoil or anything else.

Also I would vote for 12 gauge if it's your only gun. If you reload it's easy to load 7/8 or 3/4 ounces of shot in a 12 gauge.


The only thing that proves is that porting a shotgun will have less dramatic an effect than it would on a rifle, but less does not equal none...

Why do you think they put compensators on 22lr rifles and pistols???

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:31 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 8996
Location: Rochester, NY
pump shooter wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
Porting absolutely does reduce muzzle flip, it's VERY simple physics. Anyone who argues the opposite, from a scientific basis, is completely ignoring Newtons 3rd law, and to some extent the 2nd as well. The only debatable aspect is the perception of how much (the actual "how much" could likely be calculated if someone was ambitious enough). This is where gun design, stock fit, gun mount, ect will all come into play as contributing or mitigating factors.

My tubed skeet gun has ported 12ga barrels, and it weighted and balanced as close as possible to the gun when it has the 20ga tubes in, which are not ported. On paper the 12ga loads have more calculated recoil, however there is DEFINITELY a difference in muzzle jump which makes shooting the 12ga, especially for doubles, significantly easier. Same gun, same stock fit, very nearly the same weight and balance (if anything, 12ga is a tiny bit lighter), but higher recoiling larger gauge shells have much lower muzzle jump.

You could try telling him porting doesn't work (he had the most extreme porting I've seen so far). That's Sheik Ahmed al Maktoum, 2004 Olympic Gold Medalist in Double Trap (and before someone tries to go the "top shooters do it because they get paid" BS, he is (or at least was when he won, considering the oil price crash) likely worth more $ than everyone who has ever navigated to this website combined):

Image

Or him, that's Peter Robert Russell Wilson, 2012 Olympic Gold Medalist in double trap, Ahmed's protege:

Image

Perhaps the takeaway is that if we are going to port a gun, maybe we aren't porting it ENOUGH. I have Proport Pigeon Porting, and doubt I would go with less if I had to do it over again.

Did you try using ported chokes with your ported barrels?


I have not. I cannot see how ported chokes would provide any benefit for muzzle jump since they are ported around the entire circumference, putting force equally in all directions. Depending on the angle at which the chokes are ported (ala Rhino & Briley ported chokes), they MAY have some very slight recoil reduction characteristics though. Obviously Peter and Ahmed thought they were worthwhile.

What I HAVE considered is having extended chokes made and then porting them in an identical manner to the barrels, basically @ 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock. The problem is that a chokes index can shift slightly over time as they seat/wear, so it's tough to get a choke to align to EXACTLY the same spot forever unless you loctite it in.

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


Last edited by Skeet_Man on Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:43 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6429
Location: Mascoutah IL
With your criteria I would suggest a Citori CXS 20 gauge.

It's not ported, but you will gain nothing noticeable with a ported shotgun.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876076750


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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:41 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:21 pm
Posts: 680
John Henry wrote:
No need for porting on a 20 ga gun.

I'd add Parallel comb, and 30+ inch barrels, and I'd also stick to 12 ga for now.

Actually, 20ga runs at higher pressures than 12ga, so porting would arguably be more effective on a 20ga than a 12ga.

That said, for both of them using target loads, there's still so little pressure at the muzzle that the effectiveness of porting is probably minimal.


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 Post subject: Re: Dedicated Skeet Gun Recs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:03 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:13 pm
Posts: 231
Location: Colorado Western Slope
I'm primarily a recreational shooter who has done a few tournaments. I shoot a non-ported 20 gauge. I average right around 95%. Would I port my gun to maybe get to 96%? No I wouldn't. I don't think it would turn all the 24's into 25's. Those are on me.....



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