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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 223
I think we all have shot with slow shooters but don't call them out on it. I have seen guys scratch their names on the sign-up sheet when "that guy" gets on it with them. I shoot with guys that have to adjust their hat, be sure their gloves are on correctly, shoulder the gun three or four times and then finally call for the bird. Almost looks like a batter stepping into the batters box. Have I ever called any of these guys out, hell no, I just put up with it.




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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:43 pm
Posts: 92
Crimson_Guy wrote:
FWIW, our squad ended up finishing in around 85 minutes, so we weren't that slow, even if we weren't quite at the 80 minute standard. The squad after us started right on time.


You finished 5 minutes late. Period.

The next squad had less time on the field to get settled before they started shooting because you deprived them of that time.

That's not OK and they might be just as mad at you as you are at the ref.

Speed it up.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 192
Back when 5-man Club Team competition was an important part of the game, I used to shoot one or two shoots a year with the Club Team. That team always took their full 1 1/2 hours to shoot. That was 1 1/2 hours from crossing the chain to get onto the field to crossing the chain leaving.

But the next squad always could take the field at their allotted flight time. No harm, no foul.

But if we had ever been chastised for taking too long, or moved to another field, a least two members of that team would have walked away from registered shooting forever. How would that have helped the sport?


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:39 pm 
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Another thing to keep in mind is that I consider your "time", whether 1hr20m, 1hr30m, whatever, to start when the field is able to throw legal targets.

If it takes 20 minutes worth of machine adjustments to get the field to throw LEGAL targets (no, I'm not talking about perfect targets, I'm talking legal targets as outlined in the rule book), that time doesn't (or at least shouldn't) come off of your 1hr20m...

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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:33 pm 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Back when 5-man Club Team competition was an important part of the game, I used to shoot one or two shoots a year with the Club Team. That team always took their full 1 1/2 hours to shoot. That was 1 1/2 hours from crossing the chain to get onto the field to crossing the chain leaving.

But the next squad always could take the field at their allotted flight time. No harm, no foul.

But if we had ever been chastised for taking too long, or moved to another field, a least two members of that team would have walked away from registered shooting forever. How would that have helped the sport?


The squad time at the Worlds is 80 minutes. Has been for years.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
Once in the mini, and the morning half of the 12 ga in the Main, we got a field 15-20 minutes late. Stuff happens, and most refs will go with the flow. I’ve heard that a squad can be sent to another field to finish if they are slow, but never once have I seen it happen.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:36 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:17 am
Posts: 575
Location: Deutschland, Deutschland über alles
drawdc wrote:
The squad time at the Worlds is 80 minutes. Has been for years.


are you saying that 1 squad is allowed to take up to 80 mins to shoot a single round of skeet? Jeebus! No wonder American skeet takes longer than a game of cricket.

In ISSF skeet, a squad of 6 is expected to finish a round in 30 mins. Once a shooter in the box has shot his target and opened his gun, the next shooter has all of 12 seconds to get in the box, load his gun, and call for the target.

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 Post subject: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:40 am 
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jerrys wrote:
drawdc wrote:
The squad time at the Worlds is 80 minutes. Has been for years.


are you saying that 1 squad is allowed to take up to 80 mins to shoot a single round of skeet? Jeebus! No wonder American skeet takes longer than a game of cricket.

In ISSF skeet, a squad of 6 is expected to finish a round in 30 mins. Once a shooter in the box has shot his target and opened his gun, the next shooter has all of 12 seconds to get in the box, load his gun, and call for the target.


4 rounds. I assume you’re trying to be funny.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:17 am
Posts: 575
Location: Deutschland, Deutschland über alles
drawdc wrote:
jerrys wrote:
drawdc wrote:
The squad time at the Worlds is 80 minutes. Has been for years.


are you saying that 1 squad is allowed to take up to 80 mins to shoot a single round of skeet? Jeebus! No wonder American skeet takes longer than a game of cricket.

In ISSF skeet, a squad of 6 is expected to finish a round in 30 mins. Once a shooter in the box has shot his target and opened his gun, the next shooter has all of 12 seconds to get in the box, load his gun, and call for the target.


4 rounds. I assume you’re trying to be funny.


I wasn’t. I am ignorant about the rules for american skeet as I only shoot ISSF. so 80 mins for 5 guys to shoot 4 rounds seems pretty fast to me.

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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:47 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 223
John Henry wrote:
Once in the mini, and the morning half of the 12 ga in the Main, we got a field 15-20 minutes late. Stuff happens, and most refs will go with the flow. I’ve heard that a squad can be sent to another field to finish if they are slow, but never once have I seen it happen.


I have seen a slow squad moved to the practice field because they were shooting too slow and the squads that had to follow them were upset at the delay to their starting time. If you start on time, which involves having your stuff ready to go, it isn't all that hard to stay on time. I will tell you that the squad waiting to go was very happy the refs bumped the slow pokes over to a different field. The team that got bumped felt they were being picked on. It is never their fault.

Maybe someone on the slow team decides they have had enough of registered shoots but five people on the other team leave thinking these guys run a tight ship and I like that and those five guys come back and shoot more.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:06 pm
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Simple solution that many, many others have also discovered:

Have you ever heard of Sporting Clays?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 192
Crimson_Guy wrote:
FWIW, our squad ended up finishing in around 85 minutes, so we weren't that slow, even if we weren't quite at the 80 minute standard. The squad after us started right on time.


No harm, no foul. Nobody should have had a problem with this squad, certainly not the following squad.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Crimson_Guy wrote:
FWIW, our squad ended up finishing in around 85 minutes, so we weren't that slow, even if we weren't quite at the 80 minute standard. The squad after us started right on time.


No harm, no foul. Nobody should have had a problem with this squad, certainly not the following squad.


You just don't get it. Squad times are set for a reason at big tournaments. Just because one group didn't hold anyone up doesn't mean the rules can be ignored. I asked when you shot the World's last and you didn't answer. I assume that means never.

It's important to follow the rules to ensure a tournament runs on time. If you don't like the rules, find another tournament to shoot. We demanded our Sub-Junior kids learn to comply with the 80 minute timing, and they did. Surely a bunch of seasoned, adult skeet shooters can figure out how to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
I would guess that wheelchair shooters need not bother showing up.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:24 pm 
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twohigh wrote:
I would guess that wheelchair shooters need not bother showing up.


Why not?


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:48 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
I shot with a wheelchair shooter and it took him quite a bit of time to shoot and get around the field. No way could we shoot a round in 20 min. and that's with us helping him get around.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:52 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
Posts: 1635
Location: Northeast Ohio
I don't miss registered skeet at all. And the sport certainly doesn't miss me. But I thought it was fun at the time. I only dabbled. Only shot 12 ga. and used field guns because it was all I had. No doubles, no small gauge. Climbed ALL the way up to B class as I recall!


Of course, to each his own. We work hard, only live once, and whatever recreation we choose to add something positive to our lives is a good thing.

My squad had an occurence once with an unbelievable jerk referee which was almost as bad as the incident discussed here. However, we were totally innocent of any rules violations or poor etiquette. He just didn't want to be working and let us know. It was about the only bad experience I ever had on a skeet field. The guy was undoubtedly unhappy or challenged in other aspects of his life and personality also. Maybe he grew and got over himself. It did distract me a bit at the time.

It's sporting clays for me now. Mostly for fun and practice. But without tossing in some NSCA, fundraisers, leagues, and special events to get the competitive juices flowing from time to time, it wouldn't be as much fun.

I have met some of the nicest people, and made great friends participating in the shotgun sports. But the sport involves people withtheir accompanying personalities...and we know what that brings with it.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:05 pm 
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twohigh wrote:
I shot with a wheelchair shooter and it took him quite a bit of time to shoot and get around the field. No way could we shoot a round in 20 min. and that's with us helping him get around.


You shot with ONE wheel chair competitor and drew a conclusion about all of them. Kind of narrow minded, don’t you think?


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
My experience is my experience, it's all I have to go on. BTW, I wasn't complaining, I personally don't care if a round takes longer than 20 min. I was just wondering how Mr. Grumpy Referee would handle that type of situation and how the 10 sec. & 20/80 min rules would be enforced in that type of situation.


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 Post subject: Re: "Too Slow" - Grumpy Old Referee
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:27 am
Posts: 112
The last world shoot, that I attended, was the first world that the shooters appeared to be rushed. Before we, even, looked at the targets the ref came to our squad and said, "%^& around, #$& around, @# around all you want. If your not off this field in an hour and 10 minutes, you will be moved to another field".

I supposed there was too much money involved.



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