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 Post subject: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:37 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:21 am
Posts: 52
Have 4 SK marked Beretta Optima Victory chokes

2 are marked SK
2 are marked SK-USA

Is there a difference ?




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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:41 pm 
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https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 7&t=112189

In a nutshell, the SK chokes are more open than cylinder while the SK-USA chokes are the typical 0.005" constriction "skeet" chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:48 pm 
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Location: Missoula, MT
The 2 marked 'skeet' are likely negative constriction chokes. The Beretta website lists them as 0.759 muzzle diameter vs 0.732 for optima bore diameter. The skeet-usa chokes are 0.005 constriction (should be about 0.727 at the muzzle)

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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:04 pm
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Location: Upstate NY
The European skeet tubes are negative choke (larger diameter than the bore) while US style skeet chokes are usually a .005" constriction; maybe .006".

Here's the word, from the horse's mouth:

https://estore.beretta.com/en-eu/documents/constrictions-or-dimensions-on-my-beretta-choke-tubes/

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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:32 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 199
The first 680 fixed choke skeet guns imported into USA came with negatively constricted chokes. That made for a poor fit with tube-sets.

The Sk-USA choke was developed for the USA market to better accommodate tube-sets.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:26 am
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The negative chokes work really well for skeet.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:10 am 
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Things have changed over the years, including shotshell ammo components. Different shotguns pattern differently. Different ammo patterns differently in the same shotgun.

Oberfell and Thompson, and Bob Brister probably did the most extensive testing of shotgun chokes ever. Both say that, contrary to popular belief, a cylinder choke generally provides excellent patterning. Oberfell and Thompson say they produce the most even patterns of all.

Also, I remember reading about an Olympic skeet team from somewhere other than the US that swept the events one year using larger than bore diameter "chokes". They created an interest in, and fairly popular use of, those types chokes for a while.

Currently, it seems most shooters prefer a .005" constriction for skeet. Maybe it will change again in the future. The only thing that seems certain is that shotguns chokes are mysterious.

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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:10 am 
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Could be the game itself. How much American skeet is shot in Europe? 0.005 constriction works well for American skeet, I've no idea if its right for international skeet. Could be negative constriction and 28" bbls are the best combo for international skeet (?)

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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:29 am 
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John H wrote:
Could be the game itself. How much American skeet is shot in Europe? 0.005 constriction works well for American skeet, I've no idea if its right for international skeet. Could be negative constriction and 28" bbls are the best combo for international skeet (?)


Could very well be...

I'm a casual skeet shooter who uses field guns on the skeet field to shoot for fun, not competition. I have some equipped with US style Skeet chokes, some with Euro Skeet chokes and some with Cylinder or Improved Cylinder chokes or a combination of Cylinder/Improved Cylinder.

I see no difference in performance and seem to be able to miss birds equally well with any choke!

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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:14 am
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desmobob, that place "someplace other than the US" was Russia! I believe that you are referring to the Tula choke. In fact, my Smith and Wesson 1000 Super Skeet has a Tula Choke. I did read somewhere, that the Tula choke was only effective because the Russians were still using cardboard wads, whereas the US had already switched to shot cups. Perhaps someone can comment. In any case, when we refer to other countries, we are presumably talking about International Skeet and not American skeet. All that being said, Americans are very equipment oriented (IMHO). It should be capable of empirical verification what constriction choke gives the best pattern at a given range using given shot. Once that is known, the shooter can decide, based on where he breaks the target, which choke is best for him. The problem for beginning shooters is that they may break low 7, much closer than High 2! This is for 12 ga. With the sub gauges used in American Skeet, the situation is more complicated. Some have advocated using full choke with the 410, for instance. However, the 410 may be a law unto itself!
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:18 pm 
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pknimrod wrote:
desmobob, that place "someplace other than the US" was Russia! I believe that you are referring to the Tula choke.


You're right, Peter... that's the Olympic team and the choke I was thinking of. J_Fred_Muggs was familiar with the story, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Yes there is a difference. But what difference in the pattern it makes I do not know.

It is a little confusing but the so called "negative" skeet choke still has some constriction. The constriction is not at the muzzle though. There is a constriction and then the choke flares to more than the bore diameter.

My gun came with the Optima HP choked and the package contains a US skeet choke and a cylinder choke. So that is what I shoot at skeet.

To add to the Beretta choke confusion the choke marked cylinder has .003" or .004" (I forgot which) constriction so it would be marked a skeet choke by most manufacturers. But for some reason Beretta calls it a cylinder even though it has constriction. Patterns pretty good.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:03 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:38 pm
Posts: 4
The late Don Zutz would sometimes bring a gun to the skeet range that he would later write about, having one of us shoot it and give our impression of that particular shotgun. On one occasion, Don offered me a European model Winchester 101 (wasn't being made at the time for the US market). and I shot a round with it. After, I asked what chokes were in the gun, and Don told me to take a look. There weren't any! First, I had shot a good score, and second, I was worried I had done some damage to the shotgun. Don indicated that I hadn't hurt the gun at all and that no choke/cylinder choke was more than adequate for shooting skeet.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta Skeet choke question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:01 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:07 pm
Posts: 981
Location: Georgia
Look at a Beretta 390 Super Skeet barrel; about .003 choke about 4" back from the muzzle then opens to an overbore area about the last 2 1/2inches. Puts a lot of hit on a target for so little choke.




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