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 Post subject: Trap rib
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:26 am 
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I am trying to get serious about trap again and recently bought a new over under with two ribs. The gun came with a 50/50 rib and a trap rib at 65/35. I am not shooting either one very well. Can someone explain how to use the trap rib more effectively.
I shoot be able to shoot at the clay without blocking out the target or in other words shooting under the target. Is that correct?




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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:13 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2334
Location: Central NH
That would be correct with the 65/35 rib.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:44 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Olympia WA.
Do I understand this right? Interchangeable ribs on same barrel? Lyle


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
What make and model gun are you talking about?


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:15 pm 
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icelander36 wrote:
Do I understand this right? Interchangeable ribs on same barrel? Lyle

Yes, the shotgun is a Fabarm N2 Allsport. It also has an adjustable comb. I shoot it well for skeet, not so much for trap- so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:25 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:44 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Olympia WA.
Wrfish,
Use the comb to raise POI about 4 to 6 inches above POA "at 13 yards" and then try 16 yard trap. That is where my guns shoot. I have shot many 25's from 16 yard line with that settings with both high and low ribs. This is of course that gun fits properly. Lyle


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm
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Wrfish: You are changing chokes when switching from skeet to trap, aren't you?


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:43 am 
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It will more about the POI setting than the taper of the rib. With either rib attached, raising the POI by comb is more effective than dropping the bead and leaving the comb at the same place.

There is a POI setting that works for your preference in sight picture......which triggers the gun by subconscious . Sight pic achieved, the trained subconscious triggers the response to fire the gun. The gun must place the pattern on the target based on your response. It is best when the pattern is centered on the moving target. Scores will be higher.

You develop this subconscious response through experience or practice. It works best when you choose your natural response as the based line and set the guns POI to center patterns on your inherent preference.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 2027
maltzahn wrote:
It will more about the POI setting than the taper of the rib. With either rib attached, raising the POI by comb is more effective than dropping the bead and leaving the comb at the same place.

There is a POI setting that works for your preference in sight picture......which triggers the gun by subconscious . Sight pic achieved, the trained subconscious triggers the response to fire the gun. The gun must place the pattern on the target based on your response. It is best when the pattern is centered on the moving target. Scores will be higher.

You develop this subconscious response through experience or practice. It works best when you choose your natural response as the based line and set the guns POI to center patterns on your inherent preference.

Maltz


That is it in a nutshell.

I recently picked up a new to me trap gun and I shoot it much better than any I’ve had. I honestly can’t tell you where the barrel is in relationship to the target until after the shot. It’s just see the target pull the trigger. Sometimes I think it’s a house of cards that will all come tumbling down when my luck runs out. But I’m old so maybe I can stretch the luck out to the end.

Sorry for the detour.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:17 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
Try putting the bead on the target and not floating it. I would bet that you are shooting under the target. My shotgun is set up 70/30 and I put the bead on the same level of the target (touching it on a straight-away) and get great breaks. The whole point to having a trap gun shoot high is to compensate for the rising target. If you want to float the target above your barrel, you might want/need a 80/20 or 90/10 pattern. Raising the comb will help you achieve that POI.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:09 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
maltzahn wrote:
It will more about the POI setting than the taper of the rib. With either rib attached, raising the POI by comb is more effective than dropping the bead and leaving the comb at the same place.

There is a POI setting that works for your preference in sight picture......which triggers the gun by subconscious . Sight pic achieved, the trained subconscious triggers the response to fire the gun. The gun must place the pattern on the target based on your response. It is best when the pattern is centered on the moving target. Scores will be higher.

You develop this subconscious response through experience or practice. It works best when you choose your natural response as the based line and set the guns POI to center patterns on your inherent preference.

Maltz


Awesome and most insightful description on POI and how I’m going to think about it from now on!


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:51 pm 
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Here is a good way to set POI with an adjustable comb or rib. Remember to use your subconscious or visual trigger rather than a conscious trigger pull or sighting the target much like a rifle. Sighting will encourage stopping the guns movement during the point. Focusing on the target encourages your natural hand to eye coordination during the shot. Looking back at the bead loses the targets movement and you will slow or stop the gun.

Shoot 16 yard singles from post 3. Some shooters will have the club set the trap on straight a ways and that is OK. Start with the stock set low, even at 50%/50%. Start shooting targets a few at a time. Stopping to raise the comb or drop the front bead incrementally. Shoot a few more noticing how well the target breaks. Works best with a full choke. Raise the POI again by a notch or washer and shoot some more targets. Find the vertical POI setting that crushes targets from 16 yards. Don't leave the 16 until you kick the trap back to full field angles and break targets making certain your horizontal point will match your vertical setting. Once set center, move back a few yards and break targets, then a few more yards. I always set the handicap and then go back to singles to see if it will work well or if I can learn to shoot that setting on singles. Again, in my case there is a one washer difference between the 16 yard line and 27 yard back fence.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:23 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2920
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
wrfish wrote:
I shoot be able to shoot at the clay without blocking out the target or in other words shooting under the target. Is that correct?

That's certainly one way to do it. And it works if you have your gun set to shoot high and you're used to shooting that way!
There's no magic in shooting a gun that patterns high; but if you are accustomed to shooting a high-shooting gun, it will work.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm
Posts: 14
maltzahn wrote:
...in my case there is a one washer difference between the 16 yard line and 27 yard back fence.
Maltz


For clarification, are you adding or subtracting the washer when moving from the 16 to the 27 ?

I have heard some people raise their POI for handicap, while others say a flatter shooting gun is better from the 27.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:15 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
cwtech wrote:
maltzahn wrote:
...in my case there is a one washer difference between the 16 yard line and 27 yard back fence.
Maltz


For clarification, are you adding or subtracting the washer when moving from the 16 to the 27 ?

I have heard some people raise their POI for handicap, while others say a flatter shooting gun is better from the 27.


I would imagine that would depend on how quickly you shoot at the target. From farther back there will more "flight time" of the shot to the target and therefore more time for the target to rise after the trigger is pulled/released, if you shoot quickly. If one shoots later, closer to the target apex, then the target may be heading down by the time the shot gets there and so a flatter shooting gun would likely be warranted/preferred.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
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Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
I can't see where raising the POI for a more distant target would be required. If my gun shoots 6" high at 20 yards, it will shoot 12" high at 40 yards....without changing a thing.
This is referring to handicap target distances, not in letting the bird ride out until it stops rising.


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:07 am 
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cwtech wrote:
maltzahn wrote:
...in my case there is a one washer difference between the 16 yard line and 27 yard back fence.
Maltz


For clarification, are you adding or subtracting the washer when moving from the 16 to the 27 ?

I have heard some people raise their POI for handicap, while others say a flatter shooting gun is better from the 27.


Center POI setting will vary from different shooters, based on preference.

Other than personal preference, you need to understand your handling from the 16 to your handicap yardage. We move the gun more shooting 16's, developing added speed and fallow based on requirements. Compared to the back fence or 27 yards a shooter moves the gun much less physical distance from start to point changing the timing and gun speed. A handicap shooter also has gravity shot fall based on the added distance. 1 to 2 inches of shot drop at the 27.

Again.....This is personal. With variables, increased velocity in shot speed or dram equiv. Handling, moving slower to the target adding control to the point or fast to the target similar to singles. This makes a big difference in where the shot will be placed with the same stock settings. If a shooter is aware of their changes from singles to caps, they can set the difference in vertical POI.

If you call a trap clinician like Phil Kiner for advice....he will tell you to first add a spacer(washer) to the comb. If that doesn't work, to try setting the comb with one less washer. I'm a 1 less washer trying to slow moves controlling my moves on 27 yard targets. It's not easy to get to the back fence and not easy to place shot consistently center target at that distance (40 or more yards).

Remember.....there are more shooters that do not change anything including their POI from caps to singles. Learning how to place shot no matter the distance. Thereto, handicap distance does make a difference proven by lower averages and truly creates that level playing field among shooters. To learn handicap just recognize your differences between 16 yards to handicap and how it may effect you. Then try to figure out what works to resolve those issues. Accept the inherent lower averages. Most shooters will average handicap 6 or more targets per 100 less than their singles average.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm
Posts: 14
Thanks for the responses.

I assumed it was an individual choice, and your responses have confirmed there is no set "rule."


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 Post subject: Re: Trap rib
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:31 pm 
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mudpack
you are assuming shot travels endlessly in a straight line. It does not. You must take drop and trajectory into account, the same as with any projectile. Shot is ballistically not very efficient, and is launched at a relatively low velocity. #7.5 shot launched at 1200 fps that strikes point of aim at 20 yds will strike about 4 inches low at 40 yds. Hence, the additional washer to the comb at long yardage.



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