I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but I couldn't find it and thought someone just might find this helpful. (maybe not/maybe I just had too much time on my hands)
So I was speaking with a friend of mine that shoots his practice with 12g B&P 1oz Comp 1's that are 1160fps and competes with 12g B&P 1oz F2's that are 1300fps. So I started thinking about the difference in shot speed to distance to the target. ie would you have to visualize a different target impact to hit at different target velocities.
For the simplicity of math I used 1200fps & 1300fps with a clay speed of 55mph and a target at 90' at 40yds.
Shot speed:
1200fps time to travel 40yds: 0.10 seconds
1300fps time to travel 40yds: 0.092 seconds
0.10-0.092=0.007693ft or 0.6250513 or 7.45 inches.
7.45 inches is my math of a difference. This does not take into consideration choke constriction or "shot string" (which I have no clue about). But it appears to me that the difference in shot velocity to accuracy on target is irrelevant as the 7.45inches would be consumed by pattern and the minute angle difference would be a brutal calculation.
You're right on. Throw that target for 100 shots/ea to 1000 different shooters, with the shooter not knowing the MV of those shells, and no one would comment about leads.....just felt recoil.
Just get the shot swarm in the right place and don't worry about micromanaging shotshell's. They don't throw the exact same pattern every shot. It isn't MOA bench rest rifle shooting.
my theory in all sports was to practice how you compete and try to make all your set up/gear as consistent as possible.
I haven't been at this long, and initially I shot 1.125 as fast as possible with the theory that the more lead I threw down range the better chance I had of hitting something. manager of the club said shoot 1oz and nothing faster than 1250 in order to reduce recoil (to your point).
See what throws the most consistent patterns on paper and what you can tolerate recoil wise. 1oz 1250 fps will break any target on a clay course. So will 1 1/8 ounce 1145fps. But they won't break targets if the shot swarm is in the wrong place. Chances are very high you aren't missing because of ammo velocity.
Just remember, the faster you push an object, the greater the resistance and the higher the rate of deceleration. Downrange, the difference in velocity in your example won't be 100 fps.
I shoot 1160fps at registered targets. I have found that my head doesn't hurt , my cheek is not slapped and my shoulder feels nothing w/ those loads and if I do my part , the targets break.
Recoil is a real thing and not good for your scores.
Recoil mitigation is much more important than speed.
Faster loads bleed off speed faster than slower loads, thus the delta of a 1200fps vs 1350fps at 50 yards is not 150fps, but much less.
1200 fps #7-1/2 shot at 50 yards is going 515 fps, with .85" of gel penetration and .73 lbs energy.
1300 fps #7-1/2 shot at 50 yards is going 538 fps, with .92" of gel penetration and .80 lbs energy.
1350 fps #8 shot at 50 yards is going 527 fps, with .81" of gel penetration and .66 lbs energy.
***(Info from another site)
The above info plus personal experience is why I have the utmost confidence in my 7.5 1170 1 ounce loads. Focus and good technique equate to good scores, not speed.
He should do himself a favor and shoot the 1230 or 1260 B&P's for BOTH practice and competition and be done with it. The 1300's are not gaining him anything except more recoil and perhaps a little more open pattern. 1160's are slow enough they don't break the target with quite the same authority as a 1300 does, so may not inspire the same confidence the 1300 does. 1230/1260 is a really sweet middle ground to both extremes...
B&P 1160 is a superb shell, I would be using it 100% but had a station where I could hear it ping the dome of the target and not break it (slow trap shot @ 35yrds). After 10 tries and the same exact result, I then popped in a 1260 BP and smoked them every time.
So now I practice exclusively with 1160, find it a joy and have settled on the 1260BP (1-1/8) for tournaments. I also recently acquired the new 1250 F2 mach 1-1/8 and will be trying that out for tournaments.
Notes: I do not notice any difference in "velocity" to the target between 1160 and 1260- which pleasantly surprised me. Distance also not an issue vs. hotter shells.
Not surprised to hear that 1160 was also the default shell for Jon Kruger (while he was sponsored by Remington). Perhaps someone here can dispel this rumor.
B&P 1160 is a superb shell, I would be using it 100% but had a station where I could hear it ping the dome of the target and not break it (slow trap shot @ 35yrds). After 10 tries and the same exact result, I then popped in a 1260 BP and smoked them every time.
So now I practice exclusively with 1160, find it a joy and have settled on the 1260BP (1-1/8) for tournaments. I also recently acquired the new 1250 F2 mach 1-1/8 and will be trying that out for tournaments.
Notes: I do not notice any difference in "velocity" to the target between 1160 and 1260- which pleasantly surprised me. Distance also not an issue vs. hotter shells.
Not surprised to hear that 1160 was also the default shell for Jon Kruger (while he was sponsored by Remington). Perhaps someone here can dispel this rumor.[/quote
Yes, IMO there is a difference in performance. I will be going with the B&P F2 Mach at Nationals. I think it comparable to the AA HDCP & the Aguila HDCP. B&P will have a facility again there and will be interesting to hear what they say about Fiocchi and the possibility of them opening up the Rio Mfg. plant in Marshall, Tx.
I'll say it again. These targets come out of a box marked fragile as eggs. If you ever loaded a trap you know how fragile they are. Don't conflate shotgun pellets with single projectile rifle or pistol ammo. Don't blame your ammo, be honest with yourself.
I'll say it again. These targets come out of a box marked fragile as eggs. If you ever loaded a trap you know how fragile they are. Don't conflate shotgun pellets with single projectile rifle or pistol ammo. Don't blame your ammo, be honest with yourself.
I'll say it again. These targets come out of a box marked fragile as eggs. If you ever loaded a trap you know how fragile they are. Don't conflate shotgun pellets with single projectile rifle or pistol ammo. Don't blame your ammo, be honest with yourself.
When I hear the pros talking about how their sponsored shell " crushes " targets BS flag pops up & discount everything else they say. Better they say XYZ company treats me well and don't make ridiculous claims .
Meh.......shot hardness has alot to do with it, harder shot more consistent patterns, meaning better patterns at distance, also what choke and how tight plays into it. Higher speeds and higher velocity do tend to lead much more violent and harder breaks. I get very consistent breaks at distance with my Fiocchi Super Crushers 1oz 1300 8's in the high antimony shot. It's all I shoot now for registered events, for practice I use 1350's 7/8 shooting dynamics.
I'm also thinking the OP is trying to be the Bryson Dechambeu of the shotgun world
Meh.......shot hardness has alot to do with it, harder shot more consistent patterns, meaning better patterns at distance, also what choke and how tight plays into it. Higher speeds and higher velocity do tend to lead much more violent and harder breaks. I get very consistent breaks at distance with my Fiocchi Super Crushers 1oz 1300 8's in the high antimony shot. It's all I shoot now for registered events, for practice I use 1350's 7/8 shooting dynamics.
I'm also thinking the OP is trying to be the Bryson Dechambeu of the shotgun world
Bryson Dechambeu is a professional golfer on the tour that has been known to do majorly complicated math problems in his head on the fly, calculating things like launch angle, rate of spin, degrees of fade and draw, and things like that.
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