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 Post subject: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:23 am
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Location: Atlanta, GA
I just want to verify that every true Wingmaster has the word "Wingmaster" engraved on the receiver, correct? The older ones it was on the left side, and the more recent models it was under/near the ejection port. I found an 870LW that I like on gunbroker, but the seller insists it's a Wingmaster. There is no "Wingmaster" scroll, no high gloss to the stock- it is satin/dull, and the pistol grip cap is the Remington Arms logo, not the duck. I've noticed a lot of sellers on gunbroker call every 870 a "Wingmaster" :lol:




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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:33 pm 
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2pumpchump wrote:
I just want to verify that every true Wingmaster has the word "Wingmaster" engraved on the receiver, correct? The older ones it was on the left side, and the more recent models it was under/near the ejection port. I found an 870LW that I like on gunbroker, but the seller insists it's a Wingmaster. There is no "Wingmaster" scroll, no high gloss to the stock- it is satin/dull, and the pistol grip cap is the Remington Arms logo, not the duck. I've noticed a lot of sellers on gunbroker call every 870 a "Wingmaster" :lol:


Is it a 20 gauge with mahogany wood? Mahogany has kind of a reddish brown color with maybe a hint of orange in the color. Anyway, I had a 20 gauge LW Remington like that about 35 years ago. Don't recall if it said "Wingmaster" on it, but it was a very nice gun. Foolishly, I traded it off for a .357 Magnum revolver.

Oh, but to answer your question... NO, every 870 was not a wingmaster. Remington made some cheapie 870 pumps with a dull finish. Don't recall the name of them, but they weren't Wingmaster.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:16 pm
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.

A rose is a rose is a rose....

The Wingmaster is the same as a gun not so marked, except for the economy/tactical models that don't have the nicer finished bluing or wood ( walnut/mahogany).

I've learned that, when buying a gun, never listen to the seller's story (politely, not arguing) - instead listening to the gun.

If the finish is right, and the price is right, buy the gun; if not, don't...……

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:23 am
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Ulysses wrote:


Is it a 20 gauge with mahogany wood? Mahogany has kind of a reddish brown color with maybe a hint of orange in the color. Anyway, I had a 20 gauge LW Remington like that about 35 years ago. Don't recall if it said "Wingmaster" on it, but it was a very nice gun. Foolishly, I traded it off for a .357 Magnum revolver.

Oh, but to answer your question... NO, every 870 was not a wingmaster. Remington made some cheapie 870 pumps with a dull finish. Don't recall the name of them, but they weren't Wingmaster.


That wasn't my question. I was joking about the fact that some seller's love to title any 870 a Wingmaster. The cheaper model(s) were the Sportsman, then the Express, those are the 2 that I know of. I just wanted to verify that a true Wingmaster would have the word "Wingmaster" engraved as every one I have ever seen has.


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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:58 pm 
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2pumpchump wrote:
Ulysses wrote:


Is it a 20 gauge with mahogany wood? Mahogany has kind of a reddish brown color with maybe a hint of orange in the color. Anyway, I had a 20 gauge LW Remington like that about 35 years ago. Don't recall if it said "Wingmaster" on it, but it was a very nice gun. Foolishly, I traded it off for a .357 Magnum revolver.

Oh, but to answer your question... NO, every 870 was not a wingmaster. Remington made some cheapie 870 pumps with a dull finish. Don't recall the name of them, but they weren't Wingmaster.


That wasn't my question. I was joking about the fact that some seller's love to title any 870 a Wingmaster. The cheaper model(s) were the Sportsman, then the Express, those are the 2 that I know of. I just wanted to verify that a true Wingmaster would have the word "Wingmaster" engraved as every one I have ever seen has.


Then it appears that the answer to your question is "Yes, every Wingmaster will have the word Wingmaster engraved on it somewhere." I don't think that the Sportsman or Express would say "Wingmaster" on them because every 870 is not a Wingmaster.

Of course, I haven't seen every Wingmaster ever made so I can't be certain, but all indications point in that direction. Therefore, the gun that you're looking at online is very likely NOT a Wingmaster since it doesn't say Wingmaster on it. Also, all the Wingmasters I've seen had nice shiny bluing on the metal.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:15 pm 
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At the time of its introduction in 1950, every Model 870 was a "Wingmaster" from the plain stock ringed forearm Model 870AP "Standard" Grade on up.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:30 pm 
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If it has high gloss bluing it's a Wingmaster. If it has anything but birch, laminate, or plastic for the stock and forend, it's a Wingmaster.

EVERYTHING was a Wingmaster until the Sportsman 12 came about in the late 80s (which was just a Wingmaster with a slightly lower grit of polish to the metal, and birch instead of walnut) and the subsequent Express (all of which had beadblasted metal and plastic, birch, or laminate stocks (although I have seen one that probably slipped through the cracks that had walnut).

Basically there are three categories of 870s: Wingmaster, Sportsman (all of which were marked), and Express (all of which were marked). End of story.

I don't want to blow up your spot by posting a link, but in 30 seconds I was able to come up with a 870 Wingmaster on GB that isn't marked Wingmaster on the receiver.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:23 am 
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There were also some Parkerized Wingmasters made. MANY people confuse the matte finishes on Expresses with Parkerizing, but it AIN"T.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 11:02 am 
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Virginian wrote:
There were also some Parkerized Wingmasters made. MANY people confuse the matte finishes on Expresses with Parkerizing, but it AIN"T.


Looks like the parkerized Wingmasters were either Police or Riot models, some having birch some having walnut. Kinda a "pre-express" I suppose. Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
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Wingmasters say that on the receiver, or it’s not a Wingmaster. Regardless of finish, barrel configuration, or wood type.


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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 2:33 pm 
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Flyingtargets! wrote:
Wingmasters say that on the receiver, or it’s not a Wingmaster. Regardless of finish, barrel configuration, or wood type.


Incorrect.

These are clearly Wingmasters, even though they are not marked:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/899449826
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/896840701
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/898561914

If they're not Wingmasters, then what are they, because they sure tick all the boxes for Wingmaster, less the rollstamping?

My suspicion, at least on this particular model, is they simply ran out of room, and hadn't started marking Wingmaster on the other side of the auction until years or decades later.

Here's a quote from 2009:

phantom82 wrote:
erik was pretty much right on the money.

I've confirmed it with remington, and this is in fact a wingmaster. The first time I called them I gave them the wrong serial #(off by one digit). The rep also said they that remington used the same markings and receivers for their police line up.

I called them back and they told me it was a 1987 870 Wingmaster with a 28" vented barrel. During 86 and 87 most of the wingmasters didn't actually say wingmaster.


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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 5:16 pm 
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With 13 million 870s made over a span of over 70 years it’s a stretch to make statements about these guns in terms of absolutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 5:50 pm 
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Good point


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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:22 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
Looks like the parkerized Wingmasters were either Police or Riot models, some having birch some having walnut. Kinda a "pre-express" I suppose. Interesting.

There is/was nothing "pre Express" about Parkerized guns.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:22 pm 
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Were they build concurrently with the Express guns then?

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 7:36 am 
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I may have mistakenly taken your remark as an inference that the "Special Purpose" guns were a first step at cheapening the line. The Special purpose 1100s and 870s were introduced in 1985 with dull finished hardwood stocks and Parkerized metal finishes, along with camo slings, to appeal to waterfowl and turkey hunters. They were not less expensive. The 'Sportsman Models' were also introduced, and they were the first price cutting attempts. In 1986 RemChokes were introduced in 12 gauge and the "Special Purpose" models also arrived somewhere along there too. In 1987 the 11-87s arrived and so did the Express. Remington was making all those models concurrently for about 3 years. They stopped the Parkerizing somewhere along the line later, except on some police or military models, because it was apparent many people did not understand the purpose of it. Parkerizing will rust, with a highly visible orange appearance, but it wipes right off IF attended to rather quickly. It is designed to hold oi or grease to greatly retard the onset of corrosion.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 9:19 am 
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I have an 870 LW Magnum 20 gauge, 26" barrel with Rem-chokes, deep polished blueing and a walnut (could be mahogany as someone suggested) stock with a satin finish. Per the serial number it was made in 1990. Also, per the Remington 1990 catalog the order number for this model was "5070".

It doesn't have Wingmaster on it anywhere, but I called Remington years ago about it and was told that it "was" a wingmaster. Doesn't really matter to me because it's a very nice 870.


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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 2:42 pm 
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I would not bet any money on ANY Remington rollmarking. I saw an 1100 and an 870 back in the 60s with nothing but serial numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:52 am 
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All I have to say is if it doesn't say "Wingmaster" on the receiver, don't pay a Wingmaster price


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 Post subject: Re: Wingmaster verification
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:04 pm 
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An Express cannot be confused for a Wingmaster.

My suggestion is to do an images search for Wingmaster.




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