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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:00 pm 
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Yes, it's PR, but there's a little more clarification of company goals laid out:
https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/rem ... -new-guns/



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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:27 am 
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F*W*F wrote:
Yes, it's PR, but there's a little more clarification of company goals laid out:
https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/rem ... -new-guns/


Well, he certainly said all the right things, IMO. I think promoting specific time frames for product delivery was and is a mistake. A more general statement, such as alluding to sometime before hunting season, is a more prudent approach. As many have said, however, " Talk is cheap ". Interesting the mention of the V3 and VersaMax.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm 
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The last question is interesting...they have the right to call their guns Remington.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 4:06 pm 
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bayoushooter7 wrote:
Employees back on Monday and firearms by the end of April! :)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNNbi3hpxAT ... 8r83a07k94


This entire thread is the result of a spoof, a sloppy anonymous posting not from RemArms, but from Vista Outdoor. That Instagram account is owned and operated by Vista / Remington ammunition, zero to do with firearms at all. It was a Vista social media employee that baffled everyone, claiming "We have employees back to work on Monday and expect to see the firearms you know and love coming off the line by end of April!!!!" Apparently, all it takes is a a bunch of exclamation marks for the lure to get bites. :lol: The firearms by the end of April was a joke, and not a good one. Some folks will believe anything based on nothing.

One can hardly blame Adam Ballard for doing his job. However, a comment like "As we look to start up manufacturing, we are evaluating things like calibers, twist rates, and manufacturing processes ... " is nonsensical. Evaluating calibers and twist rates might have interesting to Sir Joseph Whitworth in 1859, but that has been a well traveled road in the 162 years since then.

There is the theory of "under-promise and over-deliver," one that is the exact opposite of all the promises and claims made since October of 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 4:54 pm 
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Wowzer wrote:
The last question is interesting...they have the right to call their guns Remington.


If memory serves, that was arranged as a part of the auction and related agreements. Vista ( ammunition) and RemArms ( firearms ) can use the Remington brand.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 4:55 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
One can hardly blame Adam Ballard for doing his job. However, a comment like "As we look to start up manufacturing, we are evaluating things like calibers, twist rates, and manufacturing processes ... " is nonsensical. Evaluating calibers and twist rates might have interesting to Sir Joseph Whitworth in 1859, but that has been a well traveled road in the 162 years since then. .


I would interpret that to mean that Remington ammunition is looking at market data to determine which bullet weights in which calibers they will manufacture first..... as bullet length (weight) is entirely relatable to twist rates in centerfire rifles. Specifically... AR's come in a wide assortment of twist rates...anything from 1 in 7 to 1 in 12. Longer bullets like a faster twist rate. So it absolutely makes sense to look at which loads you're going to offer first.... 35 gr stuff....or 90 gr stuff. Especially given that .223 and 5.56 are probably the highest demand rifle calibers out there right now. And how would you do that?? You look at sales data to determine what rifles are most popular in given areas of the country....and you would produce ammo compatible with the twist rates of those rifles first. The 308....6.5....and every other caliber out there has the same susceptibility to matching bullet length (read weight).

I worked in ordnance for 32 yrs. What you view as nonsensical is simply common sense and good business practice in the startup of an ammunition plant.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 5:19 pm 
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40Shotguns wrote:
I would interpret that to mean that Remington ammunition is looking at market data to determine which bullet weights in which calibers they will manufacture first . . .
I worked in ordnance for 32 yrs. What you view as nonsensical is simply common sense and good business practice in the startup of an ammunition plant.


Sorry, you're confused. Adam Ballard works for RemArms, nothing at all to do with any ammunition plant much less the start-up of one.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 5:49 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
One can hardly blame Adam Ballard for doing his job. However, a comment like "As we look to start up manufacturing, we are evaluating things like calibers, twist rates, and manufacturing processes ... " is nonsensical. Evaluating calibers and twist rates might have interesting to Sir Joseph Whitworth in 1859, but that has been a well traveled road in the 162 years since then.


Not nonsensical in the least.

There has been an explosion in centerfire cartridge design and technology in the past decade, and companies are stuck with guns chambered in calibers that are no longer popular, and barreled with twists that nobody wants.

Tell me how popular a 1:14 twist 223 or 1:10 twist 6.5CM is...Tell me how many 260 Rems sell in a year...Tell Remington which caliber and twist they'll be able to sell 50k of next year and which they will sell less than 1k of.

Why can I buy a 6.5CM 1:10 twist AR10 barrel right now, in stock, for 80 bucks, and the SAME barrel in 1:8 twist is OOS and $330? Because NOBODY wants a 1:10 twist 6.5CM...

Then again I wouldn't expect you to know what the current trends are outside of your area of expertise.

Remington has been consistently behind the curve of consumer tastes for MANY years now, and market share, esp in the rifle arena, suffered greatly because of it. Doing some market research to see what consumers REALLY want, and what the current market trends are makes a lot of sense, and something most firearms and ammo mfgs should do on a regular basis, not just assume what sold 20, 10, 5, or even one year ago will still be hot.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:14 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
40Shotguns wrote:
I would interpret that to mean that Remington ammunition is looking at market data to determine which bullet weights in which calibers they will manufacture first . . .
I worked in ordnance for 32 yrs. What you view as nonsensical is simply common sense and good business practice in the startup of an ammunition plant.


Sorry, you're confused. Adam Ballard works for RemArms, nothing at all to do with any ammunition plant much less the start-up of one.


My bad. That being the case. See Skeet Man's reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:50 pm 
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40Shotguns wrote:
My bad. That being the case.


Don't worry about it. There is something about "Remington" that makes people crazy. Not you, just in general. It is beyond odd to muse about calibers and twist rates when you are struggling to cobble together the first 870 smoothbores to get out the door . . . that, despite many promises, claims, and mysterious delays, hasn't happened yet. It is a tough one, particularly when all the engineering talent has long gone elsewhere.

Regardless of the entity, manufacturing in New York is a daunting task, full of headwinds. For Roundhill Group, that has never ever made, much less sold a firearm ever before, it is a tough climb.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:05 pm 
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From what I have read they are going to go after the midrange to high end market with the 870 and 700 rifle.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:21 pm 
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Roundhill group may have never made a firearm before, but the employees they’ve hired have. I’d still like to believe firearms will roll out of Illion in the future. It appears to be a lot more feasible than some of the nay sayers were claiming just a couple of months ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:59 am 
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Actually I was hoping but after seeing them want to go after the midrange and high end market I think they will fail. The biggest player in the high end market was browning and they have cheapend up their pump guns. The 700 is a fine gun as is the 870 but they need to be in the budget market with their pumps as in the express 870. They need the V3 and Versa Max to compete at all in the auto market.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:54 am 
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Pgeurts wrote:
Actually I was hoping but after seeing them want to go after the midrange and high end market I think they will fail. The biggest player in the high end market was browning and they have cheapend up their pump guns. The 700 is a fine gun as is the 870 but they need to be in the budget market with their pumps as in the express 870. They need the V3 and Versa Max to compete at all in the auto market.


Remington sold 18 tons of Express model 870s. I`m sure that`s not lost on them ( RemArms ). It will be interesting to see the price points vs. quality aspects.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:15 am 
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Pgeurts wrote:
Actually I was hoping but after seeing them want to go after the midrange and high end market I think they will fail. The biggest player in the high end market was browning and they have cheapend up their pump guns.


The issue, aside from New York State, is that there is little in the way of experienced engineers, experienced QC managers, customer service staff, product specialists, and so forth left. They long ago left for greener pastures, as most anyone would do given the circumstances. The R&D and product managers were all down in Huntsville.

Whatever the 'mid-range' and high end market means is anyone's guess. That's the type of language that has no meaning. As to what the Roundhill hedge fund really is, no one knows, except they have zero experience in the firearms industry. None, nodda, el zippo. You won't find a single MSRP at https://remarms.com/ , you won't see any mention of any 'improved' model, nor will you see any hint of warranty or customer service. Steel prices are erupting, the old plant is getting yet older, and it is dubious that anyone could make competitively priced product in Ilion today. Raw material prices are soaring. That little $1500 deck you were going to put up might cost you $5000 presently.

While the dawdling and dithering is going on, other things are changing rapidly. CZ bought Colt. S & W has decided to throw in the towel on T/C. The hunting market has dwindled, and the recent 12 - 14 million first time gun owners didn't buy a gun to hunt with.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:08 am 
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That is another thing WHY would they not build tactical guns which is what is selling right now. The only thing on the shelves at the gun stores are garbage Chinese pumps. And gun prices are going up drastically. My p320c 4 yrs ago cost $400 with rebates $500 regular price and 2 weeks ago it was $529 at Scheels. Yesterday that gun was $649 with the new shipment. After I saw the union getting involved and the Mayor of Ilion complaining he would not get enough in taxes. I kind of lost hope. But at least Remington ammo is up and running hopefully help with ammo supplies.
And for those of you who like Unions remember A union almost killed the Twinkie!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:39 am 
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Pgeurts wrote:
That is another thing WHY would they not build tactical guns which is what is selling right now. The only thing on the shelves at the gun stores are garbage Chinese pumps. And gun prices are going up drastically. My p320c 4 yrs ago cost $400 with rebates $500 regular price and 2 weeks ago it was $529 at Scheels. Yesterday that gun was $649 with the new shipment. After I saw the union getting involved and the Mayor of Ilion complaining he would not get enough in taxes. I kind of lost hope. But at least Remington ammo is up and running hopefully help with ammo supplies.
And for those of you who like Unions remember A union almost killed the Twinkie!!!!!


It`s a tenuous situation AT BEST. The threshold for stupidity as it relates to actions as far as the union and the mayor are concerned is extraordinarily low in this affair. This will be an easy endeavor to wreck.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:07 am 
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Pgeurts wrote:
That is another thing WHY would they not build tactical guns which is what is selling right now.


Yes, well, that could be suggested to Browning, Ithaca, Weatherby, and countless others that actually are building and shipping guns. Something like 65% of the sales are handguns, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:40 am 
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WTF would they need "product specialists" if they needn't bother with thinking about such things as caliber offerings and rifling twist rates?

If anyone wants to see a textbook example of that sort of fuddite reasoning, look at T/C's caliber/twist offerings. A prime example is that their idea of a viable 6mm offering in a chassis rifle marketed as a long range rifle is a 1 in 10" .243 Winchester.

Closer to home in this topic, Remington needed to redo the specs on Marlin's lever actions. If you've got a clean slate, why not update the 1894's twist rate from 1 in 38" to something like 1 in 20" or 28"? It's been a while since 300 grain bullets are such an extraordinary thing in 44 Mag or 45 Colt. Furthermore, if you're going to clean slate the 336 family, why not go with the updated, stronger design Marlin had developed for the 450, 308, and 338 Marlin?

Right now, before they're actually building them, is when they should be thinking about tweaking the specs of their rifle lineup. Maybe their new "product specialists" will be more savvy than their old ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:02 pm 
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Pgeurts wrote:
That is another thing WHY would they not build tactical guns which is what is selling right now. The only thing on the shelves at the gun stores are garbage Chinese pumps. And gun prices are going up drastically. My p320c 4 yrs ago cost $400 with rebates $500 regular price and 2 weeks ago it was $529 at Scheels. Yesterday that gun was $649 with the new shipment. After I saw the union getting involved and the Mayor of Ilion complaining he would not get enough in taxes. I kind of lost hope. But at least Remington ammo is up and running hopefully help with ammo supplies.
And for those of you who like Unions remember A union almost killed the Twinkie!!!!!


Scheels has STS ammo for $13/box.




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