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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:41 pm 
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Just read an Associated Press story that the Ilion plant has reopened calling back 230 employees. 120 of them being hourly. It did not say what the plant will be producing but at least that is a positive step forward.




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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:02 pm 
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Qdog002 wrote:
Just read an Associated Press story that the Ilion plant has reopened calling back 230 employees. 120 of them being hourly. It did not say what the plant will be producing but at least that is a positive step forward.


If accurate, excellent news. I’m ALMOST to the “ cautiously optimistic “ stage that we will see some sort of Remington guns produced between now and the Fall.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:15 pm 
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A previous article said 700, 870 and Versamax to start

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:38 am 
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Yep, I recall some know-it-alls saying Remington was over, gone, and no more. Hmm... Well, light develops at the end of the tunnel with some hope. RemArms in NY trying to get back in the game. Hats off to them for their efforts.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:09 am 
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First time back in over 6 months, nice to see nothing has changed..........

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:47 am 
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Roundhill has some challenges for sure. Regardless of what they eventually produce, there is going to be a perception (right or wrong) that their product doesn’t have the quality of the old Remington. It’s just human nature

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:57 am 
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casonet wrote:
Roundhill has some challenges for sure. Regardless of what they eventually produce, there is going to be a perception (right or wrong) that their product doesn’t have the quality of the old Remington. It’s just human nature


That’s very true. All the more reason for them “ to get it right “ quality wise right out of the starting blocks. Better to start with two or three models, focus like a laser beam on those from a quality perspective, IMHO. If a product is undeniably of good quality, even if it costs a few extra bucks, it will be significant in achieving success moving forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:28 am 
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Exactly, after having the quality of their products berated in the not too distant past, quality MUST be the primary goal, not meeting some cheap price point and cutting corners.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:33 am 
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You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:45 am 
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casonet wrote:
You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.


Amen! I am, however, convicted in the belief that even if RemArms produced a gun that was at the very least the equal in quality of the “old” Remingtons, there would be those who would find fault and denigrate them.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:41 am 
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RemArms problem is to find a niche in the market place that is profitable.
There are Chinese and Turkish knockoff 870s to satisfy the insatiable market for cheap.
Expensive pump guns are not selling well - Browning is cutting back BPS models and Ithaca not selling many at high prices.
RemArms having the 870 as their flagship startup doesn't seem like a ticket to profitability to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:55 am 
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saskbooknut wrote:
RemArms problem is to find a niche in the market place that is profitable.
There are Chinese and Turkish knockoff 870s to satisfy the insatiable market for cheap.
Expensive pump guns are not selling well - Browning is cutting back BPS models and Ithaca not selling many at high prices.
RemArms having the 870 as their flagship startup doesn't seem like a ticket to profitability to me.


That`s an interesting and thoughtful observation. When/if RemArms does indeed begin producing guns, it wouldn`t surprise me if there`s no small amount of interest and curiosity in the firearms market as to what it is they`re producing in the way of quality vs. price. In all honesty, I haven`t explored the price differences between the "cheap" Turkish and Chinese knockoff 870s and the higher end Brownings and Ithacas. I wonder if there`s room in the middle?

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:58 pm 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
saskbooknut wrote:
RemArms problem is to find a niche in the market place that is profitable.
There are Chinese and Turkish knockoff 870s to satisfy the insatiable market for cheap.
Expensive pump guns are not selling well - Browning is cutting back BPS models and Ithaca not selling many at high prices.
RemArms having the 870 as their flagship startup doesn't seem like a ticket to profitability to me.


That`s an interesting and thoughtful observation. When/if RemArms does indeed begin producing guns, it wouldn`t surprise me if there`s no small amount of interest and curiosity in the firearms market as to what it is they`re producing in the way of quality vs. price. In all honesty, I haven`t explored the price differences between the "cheap" Turkish and Chinese knockoff 870s and the higher end Brownings and Ithacas. I wonder if there`s room in the middle?


I would think a new, well made 870 Wingmaster that has been through quality control could compete pretty well with a new BPS or 37. We really will not know much about the new Remington guns till some folks get their hands on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:11 pm 
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That may be well and good but we already know that Browning has vastly scaled back on the BPS and somebody mentioned the same for Ithaca. The apparent reason is that they aren’t selling. Sounds like a stale market to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 7:31 pm 
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Remington is not going to rise from the ashes on the back of 870 Wingmasters. There is no market for high end pump guns.

Ithaca sold only 549 model 37's in 2019 per ATF.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:22 pm 
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Remington is dead, would you consider a Taurus made in brazil in the old beretta factory on beretta equipment a beretta? a rock island 1911 made in the phillipines in a former colt factory on colt machinery a colt? a lot of formerly great companies are just names now, colt is now owned by cz, marlin by ruger, browning/winchester names are put on guns manufactured by a few different of companies like miroku, FN, herstal etc.


Last edited by 47MolineRTU on Tue May 18, 2021 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:28 pm 
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casonet wrote:
That may be well and good but we already know that Browning has vastly scaled back on the BPS and somebody mentioned the same for Ithaca. The apparent reason is that they aren’t selling. Sounds like a stale market to me.

Because folks aren't williing to pay $800+ for a pump, no matter how well made it is

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 12:29 am 
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Are pumps as popular as they were in the past, probably not, but here is my opinion on it.

Remington made and sold almost 190,000 shotguns in 2019. What percentage of that do you think was 870's? 50 percent? 70 percent? 90 percent? How many people would go buy a remington 870 tomorrow for a field/pickup/first shotgun for someone tomorrow.

I would be willing to bet it's well over 50 percent. Most were probably of the express variety but they do sell. If they didn't some would be sitting on the shelf.

Ithaca is a niche manufacturer and isn't even a comparison that is remotely close to what Remington was, its closer to what Remington is right now (which is nothing), which isn't saying it's a poor quality gun, it just is only popular to a very select few and expensive. What Remington could be remains to be seen but for the foreseeable future there will be a demand for a pump like an 870 or mossberg 500 because they basically always go bang and are extremely durable, which cannot be said for the Chinese knock off variety.

The BPS is a high quality pump gun, but more expensive. Not super expensive but too expensive to be on the same tier of demand as an 870 express or Mossberg pump. It is more on line with a wingmaster and probably sells more than the wingmaster did in the recent past. Browning has always ebbed production, changed models and varieties. It's what they do and it works for them. Similar to Ruger and the number 1 rifle that is only produced in certain, ever changing calibers every year Browning varies chambering offerings creating scarcity one year then producing a model in that gauge later in differing models/packages.

Whether it's Roundhill, or someone else in the future, Remington and the 870, 700 and other models are too big to not come back at some point by someone. There is way to much money to be made making a Remington Firearm.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:50 am 
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If Remarms gets its act together I sure hope they have enough common sense to bring out the V3 again. the last time I had the Wife out shooting given the choice between My 28 ga and the V3 shooting 1oz loads She chose the V3. She was 64 at the time. I was very surprised.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Closures . . . . .
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:04 am 
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Remington shotgun manufacturing for 2019 broken down by location:

Sturgis, SD - 3
Huntsville, AL - 374
Illion, NY - 617
Southhaven, MS - 188,305




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